Ecutek, MHD, BM3…Questions

[Twisted Tuning]

you guys realize that every flashing platform uses the EXACT same tables, correct?

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[7sstreet]

I mean, that's not true. We're all end users, and we all have different goals. Mine is to be competitive, someone other's goals are to spend a few less dollars and had a little power for daily driving, some want to AutoX, and so on. .

I'm certainly not saying that everyone needs Port, Meth, Nitrous, etc., but some of us _do_ want that, and the additional cost associated with that is 100% warranted.

Blanket statements like, "unwarranted" and "offer in many ways tons more for the end customer" are blanket statements that just shouldn't be used.

Fine for some isn't fine for everyone, and somehow implying that that isn't true is the statement I have a problem with.

Lets agree to disagree as all you mention you could do and can do on any car, ecutek, mhd, bm3 or whatever else is used to tune, in some way shape or form.

 

[7sstreet]

you guys realize that every flashing platform uses the EXACT same tables, correct?

My point, no magic

 

[zrk]

you guys realize that every flashing platform uses the EXACT same tables, correct?

Oh for sure. No question about the tables or where they land in the memory space on the ECU- That's crystal clear. It's less about arguing instruction set or memory layout, it's about interface, support from your tuner, the bells, and whistles you want to have, etc. No one (I hope) is saying that the software solution you chose you to use somehow changes the physical properties of the ECU.. that would be.. ridiculous.

 

[Twisted Tuning]

What i have always told customers because i like to give them all the details and allow them to make the decision.

Choose the flashing platform based on what extra features if any (outside the custom tune) that you want or don't want. Things like Flex fuel, map switching, antilag, and etc. Figure out if you want or need or will use it. if so, go ecutek or bm3 because at current they offer those features. If you dont need or want those features, MHD, Ecutek, MGflasher, or BM3 with a custom tune from a proper tuner will net the same exact performance on each platform.

If you want the port injection control integration into the DME, then you will go with Ecutek and buy a reflex. MHD has the same integration coming for Port injection as well. But if you need it now, Ecutek. If you are an owner that doesn't need or want the ECU controlled Pport injection and is ok with controlling the Reflex with the reflex itself separately. then you now have two choices... MHD and ecutek. Both offer advanced reflex logging. I'm not sure if BM3 does, but i know MG doesn't. Or if you are an owner that happens to have an AIC1, 6, or 2.... than any flashing platform is usable.

But to reiterate, every flashing platform is using the EXACT same tables to tune the car. it boils down to what if any of the extra stuff you want. I personally tune with Ecutek, MHD, MGflasher, because thats what my customers use. So i support them. I personally dont custom tune on BM3 for personal reasons but that platform performs as well. But i love and hate things on on each flash platform. On any flashing platform the tuner is whats going to make the difference in tune quality. you can have a completely shit tune on any flashing platform.

Just pick what you want and run with it. With a proper tuner, the performance and drivibility will not be any different based on what you flashed the ecu with. Pick your tuner and trust them to give you want you want and be honest with you. even though unfortunately some arent. but you get the point.

 

[Twisted Tuning]

Oh for sure. No question about the tables or where they land in the memory space on the ECU- That's crystal clear. It's less about arguing instruction set or memory layout, it's about interface, support from your tuner, the bells, and whistles you want to have, etc. No one (I hope) is saying that the software solution you chose you to use somehow changes the physical properties of the ECU.. that would be.. ridiculous.

i have screenshots from some tuners blatantly lying to owners about some things. this is why i always feel what i said needs to be said. its unfortunate

EDIT: not screenshots from tuners, but screenshots from owners that have talked to tuners and they were told some outlandish stuff.

 

[zrk]

i have screenshots from some tuners blatantly lying to owners about some things. this is why i always feel what i said needs to be said. its unfortunate

I wasn’t aware that was the case. Thanks for clearing these up for those that aren’t aware.

 

[Twisted Tuning]

I wasn’t aware that was the case. Thanks for clearing these up for those that aren’t aware.

yea its pretty sad. But its none of my business. im just here to help when i can

 

[7sstreet]

What i have always told customers because i like to give them all the details and allow them to make the decision.

Choose the flashing platform based on what extra features if any (outside the custom tune) that you want or don't want. Things like Flex fuel, map switching, antilag, and etc. Figure out if you want or need or will use it. if so, go ecutek or bm3 because at current they offer those features. If you dont need or want those features, MHD, Ecutek, MGflasher, or BM3 with a custom tune from a proper tuner will net the same exact performance on each platform.

If you want the port injection control integration into the DME, then you will go with Ecutek and buy a reflex. MHD has the same integration coming for Port injection as well. But if you need it now, Ecutek. If you are an owner that doesn't need or want the ECU controlled Pport injection and is ok with controlling the Reflex with the reflex itself separately. then you now have two choices... MHD and ecutek. Both offer advanced reflex logging. I'm not sure if BM3 does, but i know MG doesn't. Or if you are an owner that happens to have an AIC1, 6, or 2.... than any flashing platform is usable.

But to reiterate, every flashing platform is using the EXACT same tables to tune the car. it boils down to what if any of the extra stuff you want. I personally tune with Ecutek, MHD, MGflasher, because thats what my customers use. So i support them. I personally dont custom tune on BM3 for personal reasons but that platform performs as well. But i love and hate things on on each flash platform. On any flashing platform the tuner is whats going to make the difference in tune quality. you can have a completely shit tune on any flashing platform.

Just pick what you want and run with it. With a proper tuner, the performance and drivibility will not be any different based on what you flashed the ecu with. Pick your tuner and trust them to give you want you want and be honest with you. even though unfortunately some arent. but you get the point.

Spot on

 

[zrk]

If you want the port injection control integration into the DME, then you will go with Ecutek and buy a reflex. MHD has the same integration coming for Port injection as well. But if you need it now, Ecutek.

Spot on

I mean, hate to beat this to death, since we've come to some semblance of agreeance. Despite your previous posts, you're now saying there is value in more "full-featured" solutions?

 

[7sstreet]

I mean, hate to beat this to death, since we've come to some semblance of agreeance. Despite your previous posts, you're now saying there is value in more "full-featured" solutions?

if it makes you feel better to pick apart everything he wrote to serve some argument then all the power to you.

 

[zrk]

if it makes you feel better to pick apart everything he wrote to serve some argument then all the power to you.

I mean, it's not an argument. I want everyone to make the best decisions for them. Real people are on the other ends of the keyboard, who are spending their hard-earned money and come here for advice. The last thing I'd want is for someone to overlook an option, because someone said something that's not quite accurate, like "ecutek has no value" when clearly it does.

 

[visconti]

you guys realize that every flashing platform uses the EXACT same tables, correct?

I honestly dont have the time to provide the reply's this thread really deserves....

Do they use the same tables? Technically if you have access to the same tables and custom code isn't being hooked then yes, you are using the same tables. But EcuTek is littered with custom code and custom hooks, higher resolution maps, and things happening in the background they simply dont tell others.

MHD & MG Flasher (for exmaple) doesn't even provide "tables" or tune editor.
So, the maps that are changed are only as good as the ones the tuner has access to via TunerPro or WinOLS. BM3 provides a tune editor which is pretty good, but still lacks compared to what EcuTek provides.

So while each platform might have different advantages, EcuTek's advantages are HUGE.
-Tune Editor is organized and well defined maps.
-Tuner Editor and programming works completely offline
-Advanced Datalogging unlike others
-OnTheFly Map Switching
-Flex Fuel
-Integrated Port Injection
-Custom Maps

EcuTek's advanced logging is more advanced. For example if you add a bunch of live data parameter the logging doesn't stop - other platforms do. That's a HUGE advantage for EcuTek.

Most of EcuTek's custom features are 2 years old now, port injection is 1 year old. Just wait until real-time tuning is released. There's a reason most Gen2 B58 use EcuTek.

John

 

[visconti]

OK...

EcuTek lacks in the price department.

MHD, BM3 and MG Flasher are great is because it's cheaper to get into.

For about $650 you can get licensed and one off the shelf tune.

Things are always changing, but as I type this of the 3, BM3 does seem to have the advantage for Gen2 B58.

BM3 has the built in map editor, which is hard to beat. BM3 also has 'CustomROM' which offers multimap.. on-the-fly map switching and flex fuel. MHD has something similar but only for Gen1 B58. How MHD handles the multimap setup on their phone app is actually pretty cool - but still no Gen2 yet.

MHD and MG Flasher is easier to flash with a phone which a lot of customers seem to like. (Wireless)

MG Flasher's tune is harder to detect when installed - which is nice. I dont have any experience with MG Flashers OTS Maps, but I'm sure they are similar to MHD/BM3.
MG Flasher seems to have the better dealer support when comparing the 3.

John

 

[LoveSupra]

Reading above I noticed a lot of posts mentioning that each platform (ecutek, BM3, MHD etc) used the same tuning tables.

I use an OTS map from BM3, would this tune be the same quality as an EcuTek OTS map? Or MHD OTS map?

Or is it only the custom tunes which differ in quality on their respective platforms?

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