Nissan Z vs Toyota Supra

[Rocksandblues]

Camissa is at it again, going into a lot of interesting details about how much Nissan tuned the Z to protect itself.

He also walked back a little of his comment about the Bridgestones.

Short notes:

• Dead steering
• Stock tune has boost suddenly increasing from 4-5K RPM that breaks the tires loose
• engine cuts power as soon as you touch the brake, even with all the systems turned off
• Cuts boost and power as you approach redline until the engine drops to 6k RPM
• even with the "no lift shift," you can't do WOT shifts
• no power until you fully release the clutch to protect it

He says there's gonna be a lot of these getting wrecked with the recipe Nissan put together, but to be fair, looking at the salvage Supra thread, there's plenty of people with more money than driving skill.

wow. As a car enthusiast that is a damming interview. Nissan doesn’t trust the skill of their demographic or the longevity of their product

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[Chgu]

There's someone in the YT comments saying "this has to be a safety mode for the journalists! They wouldn't sell a car configured this way!"

 

[JoeDaMechanic]

Camissa is at it again, going into a lot of interesting details about how much Nissan tuned the Z to protect itself.

He also walked back a little of his comment about the Bridgestones.

Short notes:

• Dead steering
• Stock tune has boost suddenly increasing from 4-5K RPM that breaks the tires loose
• engine cuts power as soon as you touch the brake, even with all the systems turned off
• Cuts boost and power as you approach redline until the engine drops to 6k RPM
• even with the "no lift shift," you can't do WOT shifts
• no power until you fully release the clutch to protect it

He says there's gonna be a lot of these getting wrecked with the recipe Nissan put together, but to be fair, looking at the salvage Supra thread, there's plenty of people with more money than driving skill.

A lot of these most likely can be tuned out or fixed with after market parts.

 

[Loco38SUP]

Camissa is at it again, going into a lot of interesting details about how much Nissan tuned the Z to protect itself.

He also walked back a little of his comment about the Bridgestones.

Short notes:

• Dead steering
• Stock tune has boost suddenly increasing from 4-5K RPM that breaks the tires loose
• engine cuts power as soon as you touch the brake, even with all the systems turned off
• Cuts boost and power as you approach redline until the engine drops to 6k RPM
• even with the "no lift shift," you can't do WOT shifts
• no power until you fully release the clutch to protect it

He says there's gonna be a lot of these getting wrecked with the recipe Nissan put together, but to be fair, looking at the salvage Supra thread, there's plenty of people with more money than driving skill.

Based on this feedback it seems the Z is still at beta phase for the first year buyers to discover and complain so Nissan will fix them.

His straight up comment that you will see a ton of Z’s wadded up on Copart was alarming.

-RJM

 

[Chgu]

A lot of these most likely can be tuned out or fixed with after market parts.

Oh, absolutely, but it does speak a bit to Nissan's intentions with the car.

People who can buy a 40-50k car to mod off the showroom floor should arguably understand the risk they're taking, and be willing to pony up the cash if they blow it up. But as we've seen in...pretty much any performance car community, there are plenty of people who mod their car off the lot, then try to get the dealer to pay for their fuck up. These kinds of "safety measures" would arguably make it easier to deny claims, because it's not hard to guess that people will bypass all of this as soon as they can.

(It would be very interesting if these were break-in period safety measures, like with the Supra's launch control, but apparently Nissan didn't tell anybody)

 

[Oceans]

Based on this feedback it seems the Z is still at beta phase for the first year buyers to discover and complain so Nissan will fix them.

His straight up comment that you will see a ton of Z’s wadded up on Copart was alarming.

-RJM

1. Yes, which is why it's good practice to never buy into the 1st generation of anything.

2. This is also true, but let's not forget that these are the same kind of curb smashers who I would not trust driving a Supra, or other performance-enabled vehicle either. In some cases, these will be their first entry into purchasing new, and have no idea how to handle something with a modern power curve.

 

[JoeDaMechanic]

Oh, absolutely, but it does speak a bit to Nissan's intentions with the car.

People who can buy a 40-50k car to mod off the showroom floor should arguably understand the risk they're taking, and be willing to pony up the cash if they blow it up. But as we've seen in...pretty much any performance car community, there are plenty of people who mod their car off the lot, then try to get the dealer to pay for their fuck up. These kinds of "safety measures" would arguably make it easier to deny claims, because it's not hard to guess that people will bypass all of this as soon as they can.

Definitely, but it is just such a haphazard approach to it all. A full everything disabled track mode just seems like such an oversight for such an 'enthusiast's car'.

If anything is hilarious it is the reactions that people think the press cars would be hampered in any way. The 370Z press cars were outfitted with oil coolers because they knew the press cars would pull power as they warmed up. Then people took delivery of their cars and then had to shell out for oil coolers that Nissan knew the car needed but didn't fit. I wouldn't be shocked if it was the same on the press cars tbh. Only time will tell what the tuning limits and hurdles are for the new Z.

 

[JoeDaMechanic]

1. Yes, which is why it's good practice to never buy into the 1st generation of anything.

2. This is also true, but let's not forget that these are the same kind of curb smashers who I would not trust driving a Supra, or other performance-enabled vehicle either. In some cases, these will be their first entry into purchasing new, and have no idea how to handle something with a modern power curve.

He also commented that a non curb smasher spun one just turning onto the track....

There's lively and neutral handling with a lot of hp and then there's less than ideal setup and bad nannies. This sounds like more of the latter. With all the nannies on the Supra behaves quite well, especially in non sport.

 

[Cptnslo]

1. Yes, which is why it's good practice to never buy into the 1st generation of anything.

2. This is also true, but let's not forget that these are the same kind of curb smashers who I would not trust driving a Supra, or other performance-enabled vehicle either. In some cases, these will be their first entry into purchasing new, and have no idea how to handle something with a modern power curve.

I still don’t always agree with that first statement after seeing issues that plagued 21 vs 20 owners. Regardless of “it didn’t happen to everyone” it happened in general.

 

[Sub-MkV]

If you actually read into most reviews that compare them you get the feeling the Z is more GT than Sports Car vs the Supra. But the Z is built on a GT car platform(Infiniti FM) and Supra/Z4 is a Sports Car Architecture platform paid for by Toyota/BMW. So Moto mentioning that was not surprising. Some people like the more GT feel but I'm not one of them.

 

[C-Pike]

This is not correct. I believe you misunderstood A70's words. The Z was just a greater incentive but internally everything that Toyota asked from customers in order to convince them to build the manual had to have been met first. Tada-san and Toyota kept saying they would build the manual on two conditions.

1. Buy the cars (regardless of the transmission) and prove to us that there's a market for the GR Supra.
2. If you bought the automatic car and it still doesn't tickle your fancy, then still demand for that manual that you wanted.

Both of these conditions were met after the insane levels of sales that made the GR Supra the 7th best-selling sports on the market (behind all of the big name juggernauts, ahead of all the other niche sports cars) and development resumed some time in late 2020 or very early 2021.

I find it fascinating that Toyota had the balls to take this route of "if you buy these cars, then we'll consider building this" instead of building the car that they want in the first place. Had this been another company, customers would just flip them off. However, I guess because everyone knows about Toyota's or Lexus' story with their struggles in sports car development, it caught people's attention as Toyota wasn't messing around with their promises and were serious on building the manual if buyers actually trusted Toyota. And trust they did, and Toyota brought the manual.

Point is, while the existence of the Z made sure that the GR Supra's manual had to be perfect, the real reason for the manual GR Supra being built lies within Tada-san's and Toyota's promise that they made in the release back in 2019.

Bro... do you seriously believe if it had not been for the Z Proto that we would have a manual for 2023. Toyota would just have been happy selling 6k of these things a year in the US. No competition, then what's the point of changes and upgrades? Just like the 90s when the 300ZX and RX7 were cut from the lineup. Toyota didn't give a rat's ass about the almighty MK4. I'm sure it also cost Toyota quite a few shiny pennies to finally have a manual in this thing. Some of you guys need to take a marketing and product development course.

 

[vb22]

https://www.nissanzclub.com/forum/threads/nissan-z-vs-toyota-supra.101/page-15#post-33802

 

[BA9092]

Finally a fair and objective review. Great points.

 

[RenRed2]

https://www.nissanzclub.com/forum/threads/nissan-z-vs-toyota-supra.101/page-15#post-33802

He takes the high road. If you like the Z buy it. Lists the points that make that a smart decision without a hype or attack on the competition. They both have plus and minus points like all cars. Drive what you like. This review wont fuel either side's preferences as 'see, my side is better'. Its not a loss to have either.

Just comes down to how you feel after a test etc. That over riding personal preference that drives us!

 

[UCLAKoolman]

Camissa is at it again, going into a lot of interesting details about how much Nissan tuned the Z to protect itself.

He also walked back a little of his comment about the Bridgestones.

Short notes:

• Dead steering
• Stock tune has boost suddenly increasing from 4-5K RPM that breaks the tires loose
• engine cuts power as soon as you touch the brake, even with all the systems turned off
• Cuts boost and power as you approach redline until the engine drops to 6k RPM
• even with the "no lift shift," you can't do WOT shifts
• no power until you fully release the clutch to protect it

He says there's gonna be a lot of these getting wrecked with the recipe Nissan put together, but to be fair, looking at the salvage Supra thread, there's plenty of people with more money than driving skill.

I listened to this on my way to work this morning and his comments about BMW’s high budget engineering vs Nissan’s limited budget engineering (~14:10 in the video) really reinforces what a good decision it was by Toyota to team up with BMW to give us the Supra at an affordable price.

Edit: thinking about it some more, I don't recall any of the youtube performance car "journalists" mentioning any of these issues. That's pretty frustrating and stinks of bias, especially since they were all eager to joke about the Supra's BMW DNA.

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