Interviews with Chief Engineer Tetsuya Tada

[A70TTR]

Of course they have the resources, but that's not the issue. They have made this determination for a multitude of reasons and have decided to run with it. (cost x reliability x emission/safety x shift speed/comfort)

They aren't going to drop the manual on current production cars though. You'll have to wait for the next gen to see what they've truly been up to.

I think its super lame btw, but here we are.

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[supraboi]

i think he talked about 3 toyota sports cars at some point , am i wrong or he actually talked about that?

Yes he did, somewhere. I can't remember where it's so long. But he said it's definitely happening.

When he developed the 86, he didn't think the car was gonna be so popular among tuners and be widely used in racing, so it's not that modification friendly. So that being a lesson learned, he developed the Supra to be racing and tuner friendly. He convinced BMW to design things certain ways to accommodate that.

Did he say what the 3rd sports car will be? Something like the SF-R or MR-2? Some people thought he was talking about the GR Super Sport Concept.

 

[justbake]

Of course they have the resources, but that's not the issue. They have made this determination for a multitude of reasons and have decided to run with it. Sounds like its cost x reliability x emission/safety x shift speed/comfort.

They aren't going to drop the manual on current production cars though. You'll have to wait for the next gen to see what they've truly been up to.

I think its super lame btw, but here we are.

While I understand that BMW is heading in a different direction now, especially with them dropping manuals from the G20 3 series, but at what point do you draw the line the completely separates them from their enthusiasts? Obviously that is a rhetorical question since that ship has sailed.

I am just saying that they say power is an issue when it reality it is BMW putting their foot down about producing manual transmissions.

 

[A70TTR]

I think the power argument is really out in left field and honestly sounds more like Tada searching for a more readily acceptable excuse for enthusiasts. It falls flat IMO.

The only other thing I can possibly add is if he was alluding to transmissions not meeting reliability requirements at high power levels (far beyond factory). This would not be surprising as he expects folks to increase power and as such has tried to engineer things to handle the extra stress (which is great IMO). Toyota is crazy picky about that sort of stuff and that's part of the reason why the V160 was so ridiculous given a 320bhp output. It's also reportedly the reason they will not even entertain the idea of adding more power to the 86/BRZ. So, the real statement there might be that the currently available BMW transmissions weren't good enough to pass the tests, and Toyota and/or BMW are not willing to pay money to develop a new bespoke trans that meets these requirements, all to sell to 30% of the buyer base.

It may also have to do with Toyota's storied past with Getrag. Both?

When I asked Tada about it, he simply said when they did focus groups for the car, very few people noted manual was important to them. He also said the auto allowed them to hit all the targets they wanted to hit. I didn't push the subject further because they, he and his main assistant engineer, both hesitated a good 30 seconds before answering the question. It was somewhat odd.... No other questions produced that sort of pause, and this was long long before the news got ahold of the no manual thing.

 

[Jdmuscle]

I think the power argument is really out in left field and honestly sounds more like Tada searching for a more readily acceptable excuse for enthusiasts. It falls flat IMO.

The only other thing I can possibly add is if he was alluding to transmissions not meeting reliability requirements at high power levels (far beyond factory). This would not be surprising as he expects folks to increase power and as such has tried to engineer things to handle the extra stress (which is great IMO). Toyota is crazy picky about that sort of stuff and that's part of the reason why the V160 was so ridiculous given a 320bhp output. It's also reportedly the reason they will not even entertain the idea of adding more power to the 86/BRZ. So, the real statement there might be that the currently available BMW transmissions weren't good enough to pass the tests, and Toyota and/or BMW are not willing to pay money to develop a new bespoke trans that meets these requirements, all to sell to 30% of the buyer base.

It may also have to do with Toyota's storied past with Getrag. Both?

When I asked Tada about it, he simply said when they did focus groups for the car, very few people noted manual was important to them. He also said the auto allowed them to hit all the targets they wanted to hit. I didn't push the subject further because they, he and his main assistant engineer, both hesitated a good 30 seconds before answering the question. It was somewhat odd.... No other questions produced that sort of pause, and this was long long before the news got ahold of the no manual thing.

With all due respect.. if they factored in the additional power tuners will be throwing at the car.. why such dismal rear brakes?

 

[A70TTR]

I personally don't think they are dismal at all, but to each his own. Could they be better? Sure, but so can everything else.

 

[Jdmuscle]

I personally don't think they are dismal at all, but to each his own. Could they be better? Sure, but so can everything else.

Do you think this will hold up to any HPDE event even with stock power without fading quickly?

 

[tarpatel]

When I asked Tada about it, he simply said when they did focus groups for the car, very few people noted manual was important to them. He also said the auto allowed them to hit all the targets they wanted to hit. I didn't push the subject further because they, he and his main assistant engineer, both hesitated a good 30 seconds before answering the question. It was somewhat odd.... No other questions produced that sort of pause, and this was long long before the news got ahold of the no manual thing.

needless to say that sounds like something someone having to say something they find distasteful or don't believe in.

Regarding brakes, they are designed for factory power and i am sure will be more than capable. As for not having big brakes, if the car did, people would complain : "why do they make me pay for stuff i am not going to need..."

 

[A70TTR]

Brakes are easily upgradeable vs chassis and drivetrain items which are far more involved, so I don't really feel the equivalency is there...

As said however, you can't please everyone.

 

[MA617M]

I'm hoping it speaks volumes to the mass of the car. The fronts are big 348mm suckers and less unsprung weight is better.... But massive brakes are cool. So let's see.

 

[Jdmuscle]

Brakes are easily upgradeable vs chassis and drivetrain items which are far more involved, so I don't really feel the equivalency is there...

As said however, you can't please everyone.

Fair enough... but a manual transmission’s clutch can be easily upgraded to handle the power.

All I’m saying is.. that thought process seemed to have been used where convienent to justify not making a manual.

 

[A70TTR]

Agreed. There are so many facets to it, and I wish we just had both options.

 

[Guff]

Do you think this will hold up to any HPDE event even with stock power without fading quickly?

I mean, for what its worth, fade is largely down to pad and fluid, not really the caliper per se. That being said, look at it this way: the smaller the brakes are, the lighter the car must be! Right? Right????

Just kidding! The brakes seem to be off the 5 series (as far as size goes), and BMW + Audi almost always have fixed fronts with sliding rear calipers, even on some M cars. Some people might say its for unsprung weight, but its generally because they're looking for the cheapest way to hit their braking targets. Either way, I don't think it'll make too much difference in terms of braking, I've been using sliding calipers on track cars for years and years, and good pads + fluid is the answer to 95% of braking issues.

 

[Illsic_Design]

Looks similar to the caliper on the rear of my 335i, which is much heavier. I have no issues at the track with Motul rbf 600 fluid and street/track pads. As said, it's mainly about putting in better fluid and pads to not worry about fade.

 

[Jdmuscle]

Jeez... I just want a nicer looking caliper. Is that too much to ask for..

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