Several HPDEs in, looking into mild track upgrades

[FLtrackdays]

what would you say single handedly made the biggest difference outside of brakes so far?

So glad you’re as impressed with her on track as the rest of us! Assuming @decodeddiesel has camber plates or adjustable control arms to dial in some negative camber. That and good tires are huge (outside of brakes).

The car is definitely pulling power. I am not data logging yet, but I felt a significant reduction in power at the end of the day. I am hoping a heatshield, AA GESI DP, and a well designed intake might help reduce the issue, but it really looks like a Wagner manifold or something similar is the real solution for anything more than stock power. Even an ECUTEK custom tune is getting the IATs too high after 25 minutes on-track.

Even my track buddy Carlo @1slow_mk5 ‘s fully stock Supra is feeling the power loss this time of year down here in schweaty FL. He was just mentioning it on the FL BMW chat group as well. I upgraded my heat exchanger. But know it will only provide minor protection when it’s this dadgum hot ? The fact y’all are feeling it up there is scary ?

The GT4 has the whole front opened up for a bunch more cooling, no cruise radar thing in the way, etc. They still run the OEM intake manifold.

That‘s hopeful amigo! I’m hoping I can drive October - April w/out any power loss/heat related issues.

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[nibble]

I had heard you can run 275 tires on the front with OEM wheels. Obviously you may be lowered and that is a wider wheel. Depending on tire options I was planning 275 square on OEM wheels when I move to 200 tread rated tires.

While it can be done, probably is not a good idea for following reasons.

- tire will burge out hence may not give you as same grip as rear does which defeats the purpose of square set up.
- front & rear wheels have different offset and if you mount tire as same as rear, you may swap it by mistake results in destroying the tire in front.

 

[nibble]

Yes I am on stock everything and plan to daily drive the Supra so really don't want to negatively impact street characteristics. Do you think the FSB alone is a reasonable option? Also swapping brake fluid and bracing the master is a no brainer but high metallic squealing brake pads is another issue.

if you are planning on front sway bar only, don't do it at all. do both, front & rear. rollbars does not change characteristic as much. only time you will feel on the street is when you go over a bump on one side of the car.

Also, I went with Cusco front and rear, only because it's non-adjustable.

 

[razorlab]

if you are planning on front sway bar only, don't do it at all. do both, front & rear.

I run the front Cusco bar only. OEM rear. All by choice. Made a significant difference in the feel of the front of the car. Proof is in my lap times. Modding cars is not one size fits all.

 

[decodeddiesel]

Following this thread closely. I have also been lapping for close to a decade now and had the Supra out yesterday. What a fantastic little package out of the box. Thoroughly impressed.

With that said, I have pads, high heat fluid, 18x11 square wheels on their way.
I am worried with my Eibach springs 295 squares won't fit but I'll find out the hard way.

op, what would you say single handedly made the biggest difference outside of brakes so far?

I'd say the 200 tw square setup, but it wouldn't be working nearly as well without the ability to adjust front camber. I think going to 200tw tires on this car really requires additional front camber and brakes at a minimum.

The sway bars do make a significant positive impact, especially with regard to turn-in. The lowered roll is noticable, but the turn-in is greatly improved.

 

[decodeddiesel]

Yes I am on stock everything and plan to daily drive the Supra so really don't want to negatively impact street characteristics. Do you think the FSB alone is a reasonable option? Also swapping brake fluid and bracing the master is a no brainer but high metallic squealing brake pads is another issue.

I can honestly say that having my wife drive the car after the mods she says she can't even tell the difference. Nothing I have done has had any significant impact on the road manners of the car, except make it more lively and enjoyable on the very twisty roads here in CT.

 

[kaj]

Don’t do it dude! This Supra is like crack for any track rat ?. I wasn’t looking to get this heavily into it again. Maybe 1-2x per year ??‍ I also wasn’t expecting the car to be so capable & so much damn fun right out of the box. I’m not sure I’d even drive my fit like a glove dedicated S2K track car, if I still had it. The AWE track exhaust with catless downpipe made it even worse. I could have quietly driven around town, probably fought off the addiction, & enjoyed the lane assist or something else the car has to offer.

Just sayin, be careful brotha. She’s fantastic on track!

I can agree with this. I've done this season mostly stock. All I've changed: wheels, tires, brake pads, brake fluid, camber plates. I'm faster than most in my class and have come within tenths of seconds from two track records. I regularly have people coming up asking "What done to it?". They are both disappointed and disbelieving, even after they look into the engine bay. No power mods, not aero; nothing. This is the first time I've ever left a car alone in terms of engine and suspension. It's weird, but oddly liberating. Also, I'm saving a TON of money.
Next year, all bets are off but, for now, it's great.

I do love it as a daily so doing my best to resist. I think I'll add the Eibach front sway bar for shits and giggles and eventually upgrade the PSS tires to something appropriate for both street and track.

The non-adjustable Cusco sway bars, and the SPL LCAs/Toe Arms are perfect. The car has VERY mild oversteer at the limit, and feels extremely balanced now.
When the car was stock I hit the bump at about 80 MPH and it immediately triggered rear bump steer that felt awful and was terrifying. I'd say the toe arms, "track alignment", and toe lock-outs cured 80% of the wheel hop/bump steer issues. I think the traction arms will help even more so they are on my short list of mods.

I see the sway bar thing in lots of threads. May I ask why you are adding it? I haven't driven a Supra with a FWB, so curious as to how the car would be even faster. I'm always willing to go faster ?
My car feels super stable and predictable which I don't see ANYONE mentioning, when the car is stock. I have complete confidence pushing the car into slip angle. It goes right where I want and responds perfectly. Mine is a '21 if that makes a difference. For comparison: my last car was a moderately track-prepped Evo IX, which was far more of a handful at the limit than this thing.

 

[FLtrackdays]

I can agree with this. I've done this season mostly stock. All I've changed: wheels, tires, brake pads, brake fluid, camber plates. I'm faster than most in my class and have come within tenths of seconds from two track records. I regularly have people coming up asking "What done to it?". They are both disappointed and disbelieving, even after they look into the engine bay. No power mods, not aero; nothing. This is the first time I've ever left a car alone in terms of engine and suspension. It's weird, but oddly liberating. Also, I'm saving a TON of money.
Next year, all bets are off but, for now, it's great.

I see the sway bar thing in lots of threads. May I ask why you are adding it?

Hilarious dude! Glad I’m not the only one. She’s so fast everyone assumes there must be tons of extras done to the car. Poor Carlo @1slow_mk5 . I did the same thing to him because he’s completely stock ? In all fairness the catless downpipe does add power in my car. I did it for sound and avoid cooking the cat ? so to speak. The extra power was a nice bonus.

As far as sway bars, I’ve always done that, lol. It was such a must on my MX5. However, I shouldn’t have assumed it for this car, but I did. I will say I only had both sway bars, tires and camber plates for about a month. She felt better in my mind. And when comparing the bars side by side, the aftermarket ones are beefier ? But who knows. Hindsight is 20/20. I never thought a car out of the box would be this capable. Especially coming from more dedicated track cars…

 

[decodeddiesel]

I see the sway bar thing in lots of threads. May I ask why you are adding it? I haven't driven a Supra with a FWB, so curious as to how the car would be even faster. I'm always willing to go faster ?

The main benefit I'm finding from the sway bars is it tightens up the front end quite a bit helping with more precise turn-in.

The reduction in body roll wasn't very noticable until I saw a picture of my car in the same turn on the same track with and without the sway bars. The car is several degrees flatter.

Different strokes for different folks. I would do it all over again, including dropping the rear subframe for the install.

 

[Eyelise]

I run the front Cusco bar only. OEM rear. All by choice. Made a significant difference in the feel of the front of the car. Proof is in my lap times. Modding cars is not one size fits all.

I think I'll start with this and work on the brakes. Tires will come. Where did people source the Cusco?

 

[decodeddiesel]

I got my set from Jackie Ding at PhD Racing, but it's a common part.

 

[noogie]

the more performance mods you add, the harder it'll be to learn/diagnose the car.

if your goal is to become a better driver, i'd just do RS4 tires and an alignment. the ceiling of this car is so high that most people won't be able to extract the car's full potential.

spend your money on seat time.

if you like modding and tinkering, then ignore my previous comments.

general framework when modding: ask yourself what you're trying to fix about the car. that will dictate what parts to get.

 

[kaj]

Hilarious dude! Glad I’m not the only one. She’s so fast everyone assumes there must be tons of extras done to the car. Poor Carlo @1slow_mk5 . I did the same thing to him because he’s completely stock ? In all fairness the catless downpipe does add power in my car. I did it for sound and avoid cooking the cat ? so to speak. The extra power was a nice bonus.

As far as sway bars, I’ve always done that, lol. It was such a must on my MX5. However, I shouldn’t have assumed it for this car, but I did. I will say I only had both sway bars, tires and camber plates for about a month. She felt better in my mind. And when comparing the bars side by side, the aftermarket ones are beefier ? But who knows. Hindsight is 20/20. I never thought a car out of the box would be this capable. Especially coming from more dedicated track cars…

The main benefit I'm finding from the sway bars is it tightens up the front end quite a bit helping with more precise turn-in.

The reduction in body roll wasn't very noticable until I saw a picture of my car in the same turn on the same track with and without the sway bars. The car is several degrees flatter.

Different strokes for different folks. I would do it all over again, including dropping the rear subframe for the install.

I get the feel aspect. A flat car was feels better and more responsive.
My experience has been that sometimes a flatter car results in unless grip. Instead of letting the car be compliant and hunker down, I may find the car skipping across bumps or otherwise putting too much stress on the tires.
I 100% noticed faster tire wear, but I don't mind that as long as it means the cars working better.
So, I was just wondering the reasoning behind the sway bars. Just wondering if it was a case of throwing them on because it seemed like the right thing to do or if there was some math/lap times behind it.
I have never, ever thrown a part on my car unless I can confirm it was going to make it better. That's why I ask so many questions.

 

[decodeddiesel]

the more performance mods you add, the harder it'll be to learn/diagnose the car.

if your goal is to become a better driver, i'd just do RS4 tires and an alignment. the ceiling of this car is so high that most people won't be able to extract the car's full potential.

spend your money on seat time.

if you like modding and tinkering, then ignore my previous comments.

general framework when modding: ask yourself what you're trying to fix about the car. that will dictate what parts to get.

Did you actually read the thread, or did you see it pop up on the front page and decide to offer your $0.02 without bothering to look at the context of what's being discussed?

 

[razorlab]

So, I was just wondering the reasoning behind the sway bars. Just wondering if it was a case of throwing them on because it seemed like the right thing to do or if there was some math/lap times behind it.
I have never, ever thrown a part on my car unless I can confirm it was going to make it better. That's why I ask so many questions.

The front of my car felt a bit floaty before adding the front sway bar. It all went away when I added the front bar.

We are both in the same camp. I see bars as suspension tuning tools after you upgrade the core of the suspension. (Which I had)

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