Race Tracking Your Supra - Information exchange

[Melchior]

an E9X M3 is not track ready, if you want something as track ready as a supra, be prepared to spend at least 5-6k just to get it to the Supra's level. The Supra is too soft for the track, so it needs upgrades as well, but not nearly as much as the E9X M3.

I've had one 6-7 years ago (2013 E92 ZCP), sold it for a Cayman S after 6 months. That car needs A LOT of money to make it a good track car.

I've had an E90 and (2) E92's over the years. The E92 M3 is such a fun chassis and car on track and autocross. It never gets high praise from anyone because it needs a little to make it that entertaining on track. But, once you spend a little money preping the car it is such a capable platorm and rewarding to drive.

Pros for the E92, the hydraulic steering feel is amazing and one of the biggest things I miss about the E92 M3. The NA powerband, linear torque curve, high reving V8 was an actual experience to drive. At 8800 RPM the S65 sounds phenomenal. The DCT is also much more rewarding to drive. The ZF8 is the best auto transmission I've driven, but the DCT was lightning fast with up shifts and downshift in comparison. It felt like the equivalent of automated manual transmission, where you had complete control over it. That's just not possible with a torque converter, unfortunately. The chassis is very playful on track but I was coming from one with a well setup suspension. It was very easy to drive at the limit and slightly over drive above the limit. Part of this has to do with the hydraulic steering feel, but the rear suspension and diff on the E92 did what ever you asked it. Maybe it's because of the soft Supra OEM suspension and front limited OEM springs, and turbo torque spike, but I don't feel anywhere nearly as connected to the rear end of the Supra on track or autocross.

Pros for the Supra, the interior is centuries ahead of the E92, so it's an enjoyable place to be. The weight starts off almost as low as I got my E92 M3 down to and it has a more tossable feel to it. The engine makes up for it's lack of soul by having a ton of torque and is straight line as fast as my E92 M3 was (until it became supercharged in it's later life!). The water and oil cooling from the factory can handle factory power levels decently on track (not nearly as terrible as the the lack of OEM cooling in the E92 M3), however, the charge air cooler is still substantially undersized from the start and will pull power on track after a lap or two (I'm at 5280 ft elevation). The brakes are more capable OEM with pads (I also just ran pads on my E92 but they never felt as confident as I wanted), but neither car has as much brake as they really should from the factory. The Supra has a near flat underbody, the E92 wasn't terrible but wasn't nearly as clean. The oil cooler is no longer laying flat and directing air under the car making a splitter more robust and better potential aero performance. The Supra also feels much smaller.

The biggest upside to the Supra is the potential is huge! I'm already ~1.5 seconds off my old NA non-aero E92 M3 at my local track (perfect conditions right after a fast repave, but that was 6 years ago with older 200tw technology) and ~ 3 seconds off my fastest aero E92 M3 lap (more recently with perfect conditions and more recent 200tw technology). Tons of potential from there.

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[AHP]

I'm tracking my '24 MT this weekend for the first time at CMP. I'm running the car all stock except for Verkline FLCA, SRF, CDV delete, track alignment and an MST intake (for spooly bio noises!!1!!). I'm excited to compare to my previous '21 that I had ~16 track days on. I was going to do brake pads but after talking to a few guys seems the OEM pads do ok, just short life. CMP is fast straights and slow corners so it is really hard on brakes so we'll see.. It's going to be hot and humid AF with threat of rain.. My plan is to shake down the car and just get reacclimated and then it will be my wife's primary track car, replacing the 135is.

 

[jbirdsupra]

Hows the supra vs m3? Sometimes i have these thoughts i should have went with M3, coz i rly like that v8...
Did U track it?

People hit a lot of the major points, but here's my 0.02 after owning the car for 80,000 miles on street and track.

Spec - Space Grey, Carbon Roof, Fox Red Interior, Single Hump

Street - The steering feel was incredible. Some of the best I've ever experienced outside of the Porsche world. The V8 on the street can get you in trouble. You seriously need to wring it out to get into the powerband, and when you have an exhaust you attract a lot of unwanted attention. Need to be above 4-5k to have any shove but it is the best experience in terms of sound, cabin vibrations, snapping upshifts, etc for any sub 35k car (at this point). Interior, meh but not awful.

Track - I was pretty conservative with mods and it took me a while during my ownership before it saw the track. Had Recaros (otherwise full interior), ST XTA coilovers (great dampening, super soft springs), PFC 11/08 pads, Titan TS5 Rims and RE71RSs in 275/35/18 square. I was on the fence about stripping the car down and going the aero route, but like people hav said, this is where you need to start spending lots of money.

After my second and final track day with the car I was able to run a 1:40.xx at Laguna consistently which is on par with the stock Supra. I have two track days at Laguna in October so I'll have some reporting to do for y'all but the noticeable differences are as follows:

- The heavier weight and longer wheelbase makes the M3 feel much more stable mid turn. On the stock Supra suspension (and with a great alignment -2.2 F 0 toe, and -2 R, .2 total toe) I do feel a twitchyness that I never felt in the M3.
- The lower torque levels made corner exit very manageable in the M3, and I will certainly have to get used to higher gearing or better throttle control in the Supra. I never had to worry about snap oversteer or mid corner corrections in the M3. Simply get out of the apex and throttle out. This was the hardest track driving tactic for me to develop as I was never trusting the backend to stay in line on exit -- the LSD in the M3 also worked wonders on this front.

I'll have stainless steel lines, DTC60/30, fluid, camber plates, Sparcos, and RE71RSs on the stock tires (not ideal but I don't want to drop 3.5 to 3k on track rims at the moment) so it should be a good apples to apples comparison. If I can get into the 1:38 or 1:37 with the Supra at Laguna I'll be very very content.

 

[Melchior]

Here are the fresh 275/35-19 RE71RS on the front 19x9.0 wheels. There are ~3-4mm of clearance between the front tire and lower spring perch with standard offset wheels and no spacers. I’ve run tires with less clearance successfully on a McPherson front suspension because the clearance between the tire and suspension will not change during compression or droop.

 

[Islindur]

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Well, you confirm getting supra again was a good decision for me at the moment.
M3 e9x is the 2nd car that i have a sentiment for (458 italia being my holy grail), coz i started interesting in cars around the time it came on the market. I remb all those comparos with c63 and rs5... and then they showed e92 gts, more power and that crazy orange (still my fav M car to date). +we bought e90 at that time which introduced RWD to me. Fun times
But supra is kinda unique - it feels small like s2000 or 86 on steroids (alpine a110 is too small and 718gts comes with huge porsche tax over supra) with huge potential to be really fast. When I drove 86 comming from e90 it felt so small, so nimble that i had to buy it, i had it till i bought me a 2.0 after some years.
I find driving supra easy to pick up but more challenging towards the limit which i honestly like, it pushes me to be better as a driver. And atm I'm in a "i wanna chase 992 gt3's" phase so supra is better base to achieve that
I guess I'll buy m3 e92 1day, as a daily and not mod it too much. Just for the v8 and the feel of owning it, like i always wanted. But that will happend with more $$ in the pocket.
Atm its Supra showtime time

 

[Rob_SER]

Well, you confirm getting supra again was a good decision for me at the moment.
M3 e9x is the 2nd car that i have a sentiment for (458 italia being my holy grail), coz i started interesting in cars around the time it came on the market. I remb all those comparos with c63 and rs5... and then they showed e92 gts, more power and that crazy orange (still my fav M car to date). +we bought e90 at that time which introduced RWD to me. Fun times
But supra is kinda unique - it feels small like s2000 or 86 on steroids (alpine a110 is too small and 718gts comes with huge porsche tax over supra) with huge potential to be really fast. When I drove 86 comming from e90 it felt so small, so nimble that i had to buy it, i had it till i bought me a 2.0 after some years.
I find driving supra easy to pick up but more challenging towards the limit which i honestly like, it pushes me to be better as a driver. And atm I'm in a "i wanna chase 992 gt3's" phase so supra is better base to achieve that
I guess I'll buy m3 e92 1day, as a daily and not mod it too much. Just for the v8 and the feel of owning it, like i always wanted. But that will happend with more $$ in the pocket.
Atm its Supra showtime time

The weird thing about an E92 M3 is that the engine feels VERY motorsport (like the engine in a GT3), but everything else feels touring (seats, brakes, suspension, etc).

A lot of people seem to have liked the steering, I was never a fan. I came from an E36 M3 before the E92 and then moved on to a 987.2 Cayman S, then 981 GT4, always thought the E92 steering was the weekest of them all. Even liked the steering better in my MK5 VW R32 and the GR86. But, I find the steering on the Supra to be the worst of them all. It is sharp, but no feedback of any kind. It sorta comes to life on track, but still miles off the GR86 and GR Corolla.

 

[94boosted]

Got the Verkline arms on and the car aligned today. I forgot to take a pic of the outcome but I recall we ended up with front -2.5° camber, ~8° caster, 0 toe, rear -2.5° and .10 total toe. The rear camber may be a bit excessive but I'll sort that out on track. I was hoping to get at least -3° up front but we were running out of threads on the tie rod ends so backed it down (against my worse judgement). This is 100% stock except the front LCA. As I expected it really woke the car up just hooning it around, so excited to get this thing on track. This is just a baseline so I'll adjust after I have some lap data to work with.

Also deleted the CDV which I would 100% recommend. The difference is not dramatic, but definitely worth the small effort; especially the 1-2 shift (which doesn't matter on track..). Also the first time I've encountered a shared fluid reservoir for brakes and clutch, so there's that.. Pro tip: make sure you keep the reservoir topped up to the brim when bleeding the clutch.

No issues with caster after just getting LCA's? I thought if you maxed out the camber on LCA's you may have some caster issues.

 

[AHP]

No issues with caster after just getting LCA's? I thought if you maxed out the camber on LCA's you may have some caster issues.

None so far but first track day is tomorrow. I don't anticipate any issues, though. I had the same setup on my previous Supra using SPL arms.


I did have caster issues on my 135is when I did just FLCA. With the camber dialed where I wanted it the wheel was pushed so far forward the tire was contacting in multiple places under compression. I ended up having to do tension rods as well.

 

[Rensuhlo]

No issues with caster after just getting LCA's? I thought if you maxed out the camber on LCA's you may have some caster issues.

I had caster issues with just LCAs. 40 profile sidewall DESTROYED my front bumper and fender liners.

 

[AHP]

I had caster issues with just LCAs. 40 profile sidewall DESTROYED my front bumper and fender liners.

Yeah.. I should clarify this is with stock wheels and stock size tires.

 

[FLtrackdays]

A lot of people seem to have liked the steering, I was never a fan. I came from an E36 M3 before the E92 and then moved on to a 987.2 Cayman S, then 981 GT4, always thought the E92 steering was the weekest of them all. Even liked the steering better in my MK5 VW R32 and the GR86. But, I find the steering on the Supra to be the worst of them all. It is sharp, but no feedback of any kind. It sorta comes to life on track, but still miles off the GR86 and GR Corolla.

I think mine came alive after a lot of after market parts. It’d be interesting to hop back in a bone stock one again.

 

[AHP]

Day 1 of 2 at CMP in the books. I'll post more details after tomorrow but a few thoughts and a question/issue..

First, the suspension changes made in '23+ are a massive improvement, IMO. The car is wayyyy more settled --especially over curbing-- and confidence inspiring. The front and rear work together better and it feels more balanced/connected. Overall it feels much easier to drive than my '21 did.

I ran in Sport (one press) traction mode all day just to get acclimated and see how it behaves since that's the way my wife will be driving it. TC feels much more aggressive on the intervention and lets you over-drive a LOT and it will reign you in mitigating almost all oversteer. Good and bad...

PSS are fine for like 3 laps and then its greasy understeer city. They don't recover any grip whatsoever after a cool down lap. No surprise.

OEM pads worked surprisingly well but they wore a LOT. I'll be lucky to get 5 more sessions out of them tomorrow. I'm used to high mu race pads on my C7Z Essex AP kit so it took some adjusting getting a feel for and confidence in the brakes. CMP is torture on brakes and they hung in just fine. I regret not running them on my '21 (but now I have a spare set!).

Fuel starve is definitely still a thing. I got 1 and 2/3 sessions out of a full tank before I hit fuel starve at about 1/2 tank indicated and it blew what would have been a PB for the day.


So my only real issue is exiting Turn 14 I really need to drop into 2nd gear. It absolutely would NOT let me downshift into 2nd. No grinding, just a wall. I tried several times in differing techniques and at pace it absolutely refused. I've done some pretty aggressive downshifts to 2nd on the street and never had an issue, but I can't really simulate that aggressive corner entry on the street. It's almost as if there's a safety preventing it if you have steering angle. Any MT guys experience 2nd gear downshift lockout?

 

[FLtrackdays]

Day 1 of 2 at CMP in the books. I'll post more details after tomorrow but a few thoughts and a question/issue..

First, the suspension changes made in '23+ are a massive improvement, IMO. The car is wayyyy more settled --especially over curbing-- and confidence inspiring. The front and rear work together better and it feels more balanced/connected. Overall it feels much easier to drive than my '21 did.

I ran in Sport (one press) traction mode all day just to get acclimated and see how it behaves since that's the way my wife will be driving it. TC feels much more aggressive on the intervention and lets you over-drive a LOT and it will reign you in mitigating almost all oversteer. Good and bad...

PSS are fine for like 3 laps and then its greasy understeer city. They don't recover any grip whatsoever after a cool down lap. No surprise.

OEM pads worked surprisingly well but they wore a LOT. I'll be lucky to get 5 more sessions out of them tomorrow. I'm used to high mu race pads on my C7Z Essex AP kit so it took some adjusting getting a feel for and confidence in the brakes. CMP is torture on brakes and they hung in just fine. I regret not running them on my '21 (but now I have a spare set!).

Fuel starve is definitely still a thing. I got 1 and 2/3 sessions out of a full tank before I hit fuel starve at about 1/2 tank indicated and it blew what would have been a PB for the day.

Glad you’re back in a Supra!

Many of these things happened to me as well - in the beginning of ownership. I bet the longer you drive her, the more in tune you will become. I can burn through about any pad I’ve owned if I really get on the brakes. The smoother I drive, the less brake chewing and fuel starvation occurs. For me at least. I’m not at Watkins Glenn or Road Atlanta. So I totally get it if you’ve got some big downhill left handed turns. Some guys use surge tanks or fuel baffles. I just haven’t seen it yet for our cars.

Hope these things continue to get better for ya as time goes on.

I like project mu as well. Especially the 999s. If you can find them.

 

[Rob_SER]

Day 1 of 2 at CMP in the books. I'll post more details after tomorrow but a few thoughts and a question/issue..

First, the suspension changes made in '23+ are a massive improvement, IMO. The car is wayyyy more settled --especially over curbing-- and confidence inspiring. The front and rear work together better and it feels more balanced/connected. Overall it feels much easier to drive than my '21 did.

I ran in Sport (one press) traction mode all day just to get acclimated and see how it behaves since that's the way my wife will be driving it. TC feels much more aggressive on the intervention and lets you over-drive a LOT and it will reign you in mitigating almost all oversteer. Good and bad...

PSS are fine for like 3 laps and then its greasy understeer city. They don't recover any grip whatsoever after a cool down lap. No surprise.

OEM pads worked surprisingly well but they wore a LOT. I'll be lucky to get 5 more sessions out of them tomorrow. I'm used to high mu race pads on my C7Z Essex AP kit so it took some adjusting getting a feel for and confidence in the brakes. CMP is torture on brakes and they hung in just fine. I regret not running them on my '21 (but now I have a spare set!).

Fuel starve is definitely still a thing. I got 1 and 2/3 sessions out of a full tank before I hit fuel starve at about 1/2 tank indicated and it blew what would have been a PB for the day.


So my only real issue is exiting Turn 14 I really need to drop into 2nd gear. It absolutely would NOT let me downshift into 2nd. No grinding, just a wall. I tried several times in differing techniques and at pace it absolutely refused. I've done some pretty aggressive downshifts to 2nd on the street and never had an issue, but I can't really simulate that aggressive corner entry on the street. It's almost as if there's a safety preventing it if you have steering angle. Any MT guys experience 2nd gear downshift lockout?

As I've had vibration issues with my Project Mu Club Racer pads last track day, I'm debating to swap back to the stock pads for a day to rule out if the pads are the real cause of this issue...

What would you guys recommend to bed the pads at the track? I was thinking to go hard for a few laps on the first session and then cruise for the last 10 minutes to get the brakes to cool down, good idea?

2 weeks ago, I have done a bedding procedure on the street and I think I've done it pretty well, but since then I've been street driving and I'm under the impression that all the transfer layer is going away...

 

[Rocksandblues]

Vibration with new pads is almost always a bed/transfer issue. changing pad types and material on same rotors just makes it harder. try light sand of rotors and rebed.

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