👣 Official: Toyota Announces Manual Transmission Supra!

[justbake]

I think a lot of depends on the direction they plan to take the car. The car has the potential to be both a fantastic driver's car at the current power level with a 6mt AND a number chaser with more power with an auto if this chassis is as good as they say it is, but they decided to go down neither path as of now. If they are limiting the 6mt to the future GRMN model with a 400hp+ motor, then they are completely missing the mark on what people want and contradicts the messages they have been putting out.

"It's not a numbers car" - Toyota on 335/382hp
"It's for the numbers" - Toyota on why its has an auto

I feel like these statements are contradicting and show lack of direction. This is why I often question the direction this car will take and how they plan on differentiating this car from the future M2, which will have a manual and will ride on the same underpinnings.

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[sdot]

In my opinion, the Supra won't get anything that one of the BMW M40i's don't already have. So if we don't see a 6MT in either of the Z4 M40i or M340i, i don't think we'll see one in the Supra 3.0 either. Development of a manual trans that mates to this iteration of the B58 has to start with BMW, and if they put in that effort, I'd imagine we'd see it in their own models first. However, I could see a 6MT being offered on the Supra 2.0, since it is already available on the Z4 30i in some markets.

 

[justbake]

In my opinion, the Supra won't get anything that one of the BMW M40i's don't already have. So if we don't see a 6MT in either of the Z4 M40i or M340i, i don't think we'll see one in the Supra 3.0 either. Development of a manual trans that mates to this iteration of the B58 has to start with BMW, and if they put in that effort, I'd imagine we'd see it in their own models first. However, I could see a 6MT being offered on the Supra 2.0, since it is already available on the Z4 30i in some markets.

I don't think M40i variants will get a 6mt. So it seems like the 6mt will have to wait until the potential S58 variant, which goes back to how the Supra and M2 will be differentiated if that happens.

If the Supra does come with a manual, they will compete for sales and part of their agreement was to have cars that did not compete with each other (assuming that clause is still valid.) If the Supra doesn't come with a manual, then people will buy the manual M2.

 

[PerformanceSound]

I mean, wouldn't Toyota basically be shooting themselves in the foot if a manual wouldn't be offered soon considering the upcoming competition? It's not like the Supra is going up against the GT500 or C8...it's competitors will be (if not already) the; Nissan Z, Subaru STI, Shelby GT350, Ford Mustang, Chevy Camaro, etc... all of which have a manual transmission. Fast forward to 2022, I can most certainly guarantee that all the cars I mentioned will not only have more HP than the MKV but will continue to have a manual transmission (some only with the option of a manual).

If Toyota knows this and is doing nothing about it....I mean....that's a pretty bad approach to being competitive. I've driven the MKV Supra several times, and I am confident that a manual option would make the car probably one of the best sports car to date. My money is on a 2022 model.

 

[justbake]

I mean, wouldn't Toyota basically be shooting themselves in the foot if a manual wouldn't be offered soon considering the upcoming competition? It's not like the Supra is going up against the GT500 or C8...it's competitors will be (if not already) the; Nissan Z, Subaru STI, Shelby GT350, Ford Mustang, Chevy Camaro, etc... all of which have a manual transmission. Fast forward to 2022, I can most certainly guarantee that all the cars I mentioned will not only have more HP than the MKV but will continue to have a manual transmission (some only with the option of a manual).

If Toyota knows this and is doing nothing about it....I mean....that's a pretty bad approach to being competitive. I've driven the MKV Supra several times, and I am confident that a manual option would make the car probably one of the best sports car to date. My money is on a 2022 model.

I agree, I really don't see a business case for this car to be made if it is going to live by BMW's product cycle. This is especially true in Europe where the Supra does not have the value proposition it does in the US and is stuck with 335hp when other BMWs (besides the Z4) will get 382hp.

Unfortunately I don't see the M40i versions getting a manual and I don't see the new M4, M2, and Supra all having S58 6MTs. The M2 is already detuned to differentiate itself from the M4 which means the Supra would be further detuned if it even gets the S58. I think this would be a waste of joint development if Toyota gets the 'short end of the stick' on every business decision and has to live in BMW's performance shadows.

I know I am beating the dead horse of differentiation, but I think it has to happen for the M4, M2, and 6mt Supra to live concurrently. How it will be differentiated is obviously uncertain, but it is the only way to make a business case for a 6mt Supra IMO.

 

[DesmoSD]

I mean, wouldn't Toyota basically be shooting themselves in the foot if a manual wouldn't be offered soon considering the upcoming competition? It's not like the Supra is going up against the GT500 or C8...it's competitors will be (if not already) the; Nissan Z, Subaru STI, Shelby GT350, Ford Mustang, Chevy Camaro, etc... all of which have a manual transmission. Fast forward to 2022, I can most certainly guarantee that all the cars I mentioned will not only have more HP than the MKV but will continue to have a manual transmission (some only with the option of a manual).

If Toyota knows this and is doing nothing about it....I mean....that's a pretty bad approach to being competitive. I've driven the MKV Supra several times, and I am confident that a manual option would make the car probably one of the best sports car to date. My money is on a 2022 model.

Basically? They did. If Toyota had any plans for a manual, they would have done it as late as pre-production. Production is already done and unless they do a complete re-design then I'll believe it. Other then that, it's not going to happen.

The center console wall on the driver's side is a clear indicator that there isn't a manual for the MKV. Toyota over engineered the MKIV so swaps and maintenance were a lot easier. Toyota made holes in the firewall for more seamless Auto to a 5spd/6spd swap. Not on this car. Too much BMW electronics.

 

[justbake]

Basically? They did. If Toyota had any plans for a manual, they would have done it as late as pre-production. Production is already done and unless they do a complete re-design then I'll believe it. Other then that, it's not going to happen.

The center console wall on the driver's side is a clear indicator that there isn't a manual for the MKV. Toyota over engineered the MKIV so swaps and maintenance were a lot easier. Toyota made holes in the firewall for more seamless Auto to a 5spd/6spd swap. Not on this car. Too much BMW electronics.

Toyota has dealt with BMW electronics before when they used BMW diesels with Bosch Ecus in a few of their models, and they integrated Toyota Safety Sense in the MKV. Also, if they did the tuning they said they did then they should have a very good idea of how everything works. And we are talking about automotive professionals in a partnership who have contact with those who wrote the software and not someone manual swapping their car in a garage with Harbor Freight tools. There are many hurdles to climb if the car were given the green light for a 6mt, but I think electronics is the least of their worries. The Aston Martin Vantage with a 7MT behind a Mercedes V8 is a good example of this.

 

[DesmoSD]

Toyota has dealt with BMW electronics before when they used BMW diesels with Bosch Ecus in a few of their models, and they integrated Toyota Safety Sense in the MKV. Also, if they did the tuning they said they did then they should have a very good idea of how everything works. And we are talking about automotive professionals in a partnership who have contact with those who wrote the software and not someone manual swapping their car in a garage with Harbor Freight tools. There are many hurdles to climb if the car were given the green light for a 6mt, but I think electronics is the least of their worries. The Aston Martin Vantage with a 7MT behind a Mercedes V8 is a good example of this.

No shit but that's not what I'm talking about.

 

[justbake]

No shit but that's not what I'm talking about.

So what are you talking about? BMW uses different center consoles for manual G chassis cars so I don't know why the Supra wouldn't have one either. The Z4 has a stamped firewall for a CMC so I am pretty sure the Supra does as well. BMW clutch pedals attach to the brake pedal bracket so a hole in the firewall wouldn't be needed for that. The Z4 has a manual so theres a transmission tunnel that fits the chassis. Am I missing anything?

I only addressed electronics because that seems to be the most difficult hoop to jump through.

 

[kona61]

I mean, wouldn't Toyota basically be shooting themselves in the foot if a manual wouldn't be offered soon considering the upcoming competition? It's not like the Supra is going up against the GT500 or C8...it's competitors will be (if not already) the; Nissan Z, Subaru STI, Shelby GT350, Ford Mustang, Chevy Camaro, etc... all of which have a manual transmission. Fast forward to 2022, I can most certainly guarantee that all the cars I mentioned will not only have more HP than the MKV but will continue to have a manual transmission (some only with the option of a manual).

If Toyota knows this and is doing nothing about it....I mean....that's a pretty bad approach to being competitive. I've driven the MKV Supra several times, and I am confident that a manual option would make the car probably one of the best sports car to date. My money is on a 2022 model.

My biggest caveat the STI and 400Z are the engines. The FA24 isn’t yet proven and I can’t imagine it would hold 600+ hp. The highest horsepower VR30 is 800 whp but it’s on a built block and even has factory support. If these engines end up making power, great! But I have my doubts.

 

[PerformanceSound]

My biggest caveat the STI and 400Z are the engines. The FA24 isn’t yet proven and I can’t imagine it would hold 600+ hp. The highest horsepower VR30 is 800 whp but it’s on a built block and even has factory support. If these engines end up making power, great! But I have my doubts.

True, both motors you mentioned have yet to be put through the gauntlet of serious tuning. However, on the topic of manual transmissions....both the STI and Z have had bulletproof transmissions and drivetrains capable of 1000hp+. Now, in terms of motors....I think more buyers would be willing to pull out a motor and build it, than try converting an auto-only car to a manual. In the Subaru world, it’s almost mandatory to pull the motor out and build it for anything over 500hp....hence why the EJ25 can be removed in 20min, hehe. Yet, the rest of the car is ready to handle anything you throw at it. Same will probably be the case with the Z, maybe better considering it is borrowing technology from the R35.

Toyota will have to respond....these upcoming cars will be hot sellers. The B58 is turning out to be a fantastic motor, we need a manual behind it!

 

[Dannyvandelft]

The STI transmission is fantastic. It's like operating a bolt action rifle. It's rod driven rather than the sloppy cable driven transmission in the WRX.

The Supra is Toyota's fastest car, not counting Lexus. Top Nissan, Top Porsche, Top Honda, Top Ford, Top Chevy, etc. ALL AUTO ONLY.

Toyota sells a manual in the 86. If it's a must have, there it is. They could add one to the 2.0 Supra, but I doubt it.

It's definitely not coming in the GRMN IMHO. They're not going to make a faster, lighter, more powerful Supra, and then handicap it with a slow manual. Makes no sense.

 

[justbake]

The Supra is Toyota's fastest car, not counting Lexus. Top Nissan, Top Porsche, Top Honda, Top Ford, Top Chevy, etc. ALL AUTO ONLY.

That correlation is irrelevant. The difference is that Toyota’s fastest car has a lot less power and is meant to be a driver’s car.

There would be a lot of outrage if the 400hp STI and 400hp Z didn’t come in a manual either, whether they are the fastest car from that company or not is irrelevant.

It's definitely not coming in the GRMN IMHO. They're not going to make a faster, lighter, more powerful Supra, and then handicap it with a slow manual. Makes no sense.

Like the manual-only Cayman GT4 which is presumably the GRMN Supra's target?

 

[Dannyvandelft]

That correlation is irrelevant. The difference is that Toyota’s fastest car has a lot less power and is meant to be a driver’s car.

There would be a lot of outrage if the 400hp STI and 400hp Z didn’t come in a manual either, whether they are the fastest car from that company or not is irrelevant.



Like the manual-only Cayman GT4 which is presumably the GRMN Supra's target?

Lol what 400hp STI??? Don't believe everything you read. The next STI MIGHT get a 10 hp bump lol. That's it. The S209 got 345 for 65k, they're not going to offer 400 for 40k 2 years later. It'll be somewhere in the low 320 range at best.

Now all of a sudden only a manual is a "drivers" car?? Guess Ferrari, McLaren, Lamborghini and so have all fucked up then not making "drivers" cars for 300k plus

Since when is the Cayman GT4 the range topping Porsche? Or haven't you heard about the PDK only rumored GT4 RS??

 

[justbake]

Lol what 400hp STI??? Don't believe everything you read. The next STI MIGHT get a 10 hp bump lol. That's it. The S209 got 345 for 65k, they're not going to offer 400 for 40k 2 years later. It'll be somewhere in the low 320 range at best.

Now all of a sudden only a manual is a "drivers" car?? Guess Ferrari, McLaren, Lamborghini and so have all fucked up then not making "drivers" cars for 300k plus

Since when is the Cayman GT4 the range topping Porsche? Or haven't you heard about the PDK only rumored GT4 RS??

If you're going to purposely miss my point then I think it is fair to mention your argument is incredibly flawed since the Supra isn't the top Toyota, the LC and RC are above the Supra. Your point comes across as: "if you ignore the cars above the Supra, the Supra is the top Toyota."

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