2020 Supra Transmission Chat - Manual, Dual Clutch, or Auto?

What kind of transmission are you hoping for?

  • Manual

    Votes: 72 68.6%
  • DCT

    Votes: 26 24.8%
  • Auto

    Votes: 7 6.7%

  • Total voters
    105

Craigy

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I searched around and saw one quote say that the BMW M3's DCT is around ~60 pounds heavier than a manual. Don't know how much difference that makes though. Tt's not unsprung weight like wheels/brakes which would have performance penalties.
Dude, 60 pounds on a 400-500 horsepower car is nothing. Almost splitting hairs here when talking about the weight of different transmissions when comparing their merits.
Exactly guys, a modern DCT is roughly 40-60 lbs heavier than a manual counterpart, which is simply not noticed in a 3,000 lb car. Any decreased performance due to weight is completely offset by quicker shifts, increased fuel economy, etc. Additionally, modern DCT design drastically reduces/eliminates problems such as clutch wear and other problems brought about by user error/abuse with a three pedal setup.
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Sabreson

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I have yet to hear anyone complain about a DCT adding weight.
If the Supra wants to compete with high end sports cars cutting edge transmission is way more impactful than 50 pounds.
 

divinesteer

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Any word yet what the LF-LC production car will get as a transmission? Might tell us what the FT-1 will get.
 

JJR

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Any word yet what the LF-LC production car will get as a transmission? Might tell us what the FT-1 will get.
Not that I've seen but early rumors were that it might get a 10 speed auto. Way too many speeds! Toyota/Lexus needs to get with the times and come out with a proper dual clutch already.
 

fox body

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Even the new mustang is going to get a 10spd auto rumors are saying. It helps with fuel economy but does nothing for performance. I'll be disappointed if we dont see a modern DCT in this car. It needs to be built forward thinking.
 

Mr. M

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Even the new mustang is going to get a 10spd auto rumors are saying. It helps with fuel economy but does nothing for performance. I'll be disappointed if we dont see a modern DCT in this car. It needs to be built forward thinking.
Unfortunately 'forward looking' for a lot of companies these days is going with auto over dual clutch, even for their sporty cars. :(
 

fox body

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Unfortunately 'forward looking' for a lot of companies these days is going with auto over dual clutch, even for their sporty cars. :(
All in the name of fuel efficiency really. Luckily Toyota has a lot of fuel efficient cars which should balance out their fleet averages. Hopefully they can still have a few gas guzzlers (though I doubt it would be that bad). I just can't imagine they would do this to the Supra but who knows.
 

Craigy

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Unfortunately 'forward looking' for a lot of companies these days is going with auto over dual clutch, even for their sporty cars. :(
The legitimate sportscar manufacturers are all employing, improving, innovating their dual clutch units. BMW, Mercedes, Ferrari, Audi, Porsche, Lamborghini, Nissan all use dual clutch units. Several companies have made the change fairly recently, such as Porsche going from Automatic (tiptronic) to PDK, and the Italian cars going from single-clutch F1/egear to dual clutch setups on all or almost all of their products. Mercedes has put a lot of money into improving their DCT in the new AMG GT. The quickness and crispness of a DCT simply can't be matched by any other product on the market.

Only the cheapskates like GM are choosing automatic over DCT. Their marketing department stretches the truth and advertises it as better than pdk, but if this were the case then the other companies would be following suit. If it was Audi, Porsche saying that their new automatic was lighter, faster, better than DCT, ok sure I might stop and listen... but suggesting that Chevy is on the cutting edge of transmission technology with the automatic in their Corvette and Z06 is just ridiculous.

The Lexus ISF, RCF are outliers here in my opinion, and the spiffy automatic has been a stopgap for a low-volume car in their lineup.
 

TorqueRules

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Unfortunately 'forward looking' for a lot of companies these days is going with auto over dual clutch, even for their sporty cars. :(
Even the new CTS-V with 640hp / 630lb-ft has just an auto tranmission. So does the Corvette. So doesn't look like GM is going to go the the dual clutch route. Hope Toyota does follow suit.
 

TorqueRules

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Only the cheapskates like GM are choosing automatic over DCT. Their marketing department stretches the truth and advertises it as better than pdk, but if this were the case then the other companies would be following suit. If it was Audi, Porsche saying that their new automatic was lighter, faster, better than DCT, ok sure I might stop and listen... but suggesting that Chevy is on the cutting edge of transmission technology with the automatic in their Corvette and Z06 is just ridiculous.

The Lexus ISF, RCF are outliers here in my opinion, and the spiffy automatic has been a stopgap for a low-volume car in their lineup.
What do consider 'better' when talking about DCT vs auto? Shift speed? Durability? Ability to deal with high power? Efficiency? I'm surprised GM hasn't developed a dual clutch. They have multiple models that sell in volume that they can drop it into - Camaro and Corvette, so it's not like Toyota which would currently only have low-volume cars to use it in.

Let's hope that Toyota projects the Supra for enough sales volume to justify giving it a DCT.
 

fox body

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I hate to say it but this is very much a domestic versus import car thing. Chevy fans (camaro, corvette) would take a traditional manual over a modern DCT if given a choice between the two. They see it as "euro" or "asian"

I like rowing my own gears as much as any enthusiast but to me most of them are looking backwards clinging to some history than looking forward and seeing how superior technology can help performance.
 

Craigy

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What do consider 'better' when talking about DCT vs auto? Shift speed? Durability? Ability to deal with high power? Efficiency? I'm surprised GM hasn't developed a dual clutch. They have multiple models that sell in volume that they can drop it into - Camaro and Corvette, so it's not like Toyota which would currently only have low-volume cars to use it in.

Let's hope that Toyota projects the Supra for enough sales volume to justify giving it a DCT.
Yeah shift time, but more importantly the immediacy of response to driver input, crispness of the shift, lack of slush. ;)

Also, while I'm not an engineer, supposedly they offer more compact packaging, better fuel efficiency, etc., which is why more companies like Ford, Volkswagen offer them in their economy cars. Not really important to me, but it doesn't hurt.

The GM claimed durability issues are bogus in my opinion.
 

black-supra

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Has anyone driven an RC-F? I'm curious to see how good/bad the auto in it actually is.

On paper Lexus claims it to be as good as DCT, locking torque converter from 2nd through 8th gear which supposed to give crisp shifts. Also works with the car's G-force sensor and can downshift automatically with higher G's.
 

Craigy

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Supposedly it's about as good as it gets for an autobox.

I was cross shopping the ISF and M3, but almost every review mentioned how it would deny downshifts (sometimes you could audibly hear the car beeping at reviewers in their videos) as well as some actual owner complaints. Having come from another car with an auto transmission with "manual shift mode" I had pretty low expectations so I never really gave it a chance. However I still have never driven one and I would also be interested to see what it's like for myself.
 

Ren

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What's with the US companies not using dual clutch even in their top performance cars? Even the new Corvette Z06 and Mustang GT350R were announced with autos. Do they just have access to better autos than German/Japanese companies or they just cheaping out?
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