2020 Supra Transmission Chat - Manual, Dual Clutch, or Auto?

[Guff]

Damn, if this stuff holds up, then I'm even more pumped than before! I legit had nightmares about the Supra being perfect and then I get inside and it's a BMW interior...

No visible parts shared is a very interesting way to put it as well, I wonder if that's exactly how Tada said it or just how C&D wrote it...

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[Lexusisf]

Calling Tada-san an idiot sure is classy... if you never show up here again it will be too soon IMO.

That comment is so immature and offside in so many ways, let alone rude, Tada-san does not have a golden wand to make a decision alone on a transmission or an engine or a lug nut, yes he was quoted but only the messenger...I am sure many many people were involved in the decision...like it or not...

Nothing is finalized and here is a new post saying it be might available;

https://blog.caranddriver.com/more-...al-remains-possible-a-v-8-fits-and-much-more/

 

[HKz]

Calling Tada-san an idiot sure is classy... if you never show up here again it will be too soon IMO.

clowns can only clown around.

 

[supraboi]

@zakira mention getting a petition for a manual started. We should definitely get one of those online petitions going to show Toyota that there is a market and a need from car enthusiast.

 

[supraboi]

Here is the article for those that are too lazy to click on the link lol.

The Toyota Supra is back. After leaked specs and many spins around the rumor mill, the first official evidence of the car’s rebirth came at this year’s Geneva auto show with the reveal of the GR Supra Racing concept, a race-car version of the eventual production model. We sat down with Supra (and Toyota 86) chief engineer Tetsuya Tada at the show, where he revealed more of the car’s secrets. There’s still much to learn, but the pieces are starting to fall into place. Here is what we learned.

• The production Supra will be strictly a two-seater. If you look carefully at the race car’s 97.2-inch wheelbase, it’s four inches shorter than that of the Toyota 86, a car that needed more space between its axles to package a rear seat and make other concessions to practicality. Tada said the Supra will make no such concessions.

• The concept version is set up to GT-class spec, although it doesn’t have a powertrain installed. If the Supra were ultimately to enter that racing class, rules specify a production engine—but not necessarily one from that specific car. So the GT Supra could use anything from a version of the turbocharged inline-six slated for the roadgoing model to the V-8 currently stuffed in Lexus’s RC F GT3 race cars; we did confirm with Tada that a V-8 would indeed fit beneath the Supra racer’s hood. He also said that the car could use different powertrains depending on the racing series.

• The racing version was developed in tandem with the street car. Doing so allowed Tada and his team to tweak the production model along the way to ensure it would be as suitable a base as possible for the race car. This is an approach shared by the Chevrolet Corvette development team, and it has paid off for them in big ways for both race and street models.

• The race-car concept is said to have (or at least is being shown as if it has) an automatic sequential transmission, but it has three pedals—what gives? As in many race cars with sequential ’boxes, the clutch pedal is needed to get moving from a stop and then makes like your appendix and isn’t used for anything the rest of the time.

• Toyota spoke to a large number of Supra enthusiasts, especially in the United States, to find out what was most important to them regarding a possible fifth-gen model, and the automaker came away with three key learnings: The car had to be front engined and rear-wheel drive, it needed to have a turbocharged straight-six engine, and the fans wanted it to be tunable. The first two have been checked off the list, and while Tada wouldn’t promise to match the tunability of the fourth-gen car—he says its ability to handle four-figure horsepower was more an accidental byproduct of trying to make it reliable than by design—we were told that having a close connection between car and driver is very important to him and his team.

• Tada tells us that there wasn’t much demand from Supra enthusiasts for a manual transmission in the street model—although we find that hard to believe, and he definitely didn’t ask us what we thought. Yet despite that fact and much reporting to the contrary, hope for a manual may not actually be dead after all. When asked if a stick could be added into the mix, he demurred and expressed his desire to make that happen, saying earnestly and with a bit of a twinkle in his eye that he will “try to do his best.”

• The Toyota 86 and its Subaru BRZ twin are renowned for their low centers of gravity, imbued in part by their flat-four engines, a powerplant type that is low and wide. Despite the production Supra’s use of a comparatively tall and long straight-six, we were told that the Supra’s center of gravity, incredibly, will actually be lower than that of the 86. Tada says the team is also considering a model that leverages Lexus’s latest hybrid powertrain as seen in the LS and the LC, although cost remains a worry there.

• We were also told that the Supra will offer 50/50 weight distribution. This and the low center of gravity were not achieved by using a transaxle, Tada confirmed, adding that hitting these targets was the most difficult part of the project. We’re still trying to work out the packaging, but we were promised all will be revealed when we get to drive the car sometime next year.

• The streetable Supra won’t have brake-based torque vectoring, instead being fitted with a true active rear differential.

• While everyone—including us—has cried for more power in the 86 since the moment it launched, Tada said that car couldn’t get more powerful without needing major chassis revisions. This was taken into account with the Supra, and its bones are prepared for more muscle right out of the gate. Those bones, by the way, are said to be twice as rigid as the 86’s.

• The Toyota/BMW partnership that produced this car—BMW will get a new Z4 out of it, too—was formed six years ago, and it took two years simply to overcome operational, cultural, and developmental hurdles to establish a comfortable working relationship.

• Toyota’s approach when developing the 86/BRZ with Subaru was to have the cars share as many components as possible, and it believed BMW would want to follow this same approach. BMW had other ideas, saying it was important that the resultant cars were ones that each company truly wanted, and so the Z4/Supra project began with each automaker laying out a set of parameters for its own model and then working out what could be commodified from there. The result is that the Z4 and the Supra, we’re told, will share almost zero visible parts. Among the Toyota’s differentiators may be the concept’s super-cool single rear exhaust outlet—it seems as if it may survive the transition to production.

• Tada wouldn’t divulge any specific benchmarks for the Supra, but he did say that whenever Porsche released a new model during the primary development phase, Toyota would buy an example to study. One thing Toyota won’t benchmark against Porsche is the Supra’s price, preferring to keep the car “affordable.”

• The BMW Z4 will go on sale first, with the Supra to follow probably by the middle of next year. Look for the Toyota at an auto show early next calendar year, likely Detroit. The Toyota will be offered globally in most markets almost simultaneously, including both right- and left-hand-drive versions.

 

[simply put]

yeah i hope they do a manual. problem being most manual bmw's use sloppy getrag from the 3 series. that one is used in the f type also and it's not great in that application either. unless they use the M3/M4 in house design i'd rather have the ZF auto. i can't imagine a DCT sense it's gone in the M5 and all future M products.

i'm really surprised at the 50/50 weight split. they had to put that inline six low and far back for that to happen. 86's are 53/47 i think. without a rear transaxle and and 4 inch shorter wheel base than the 86! that shocked me! this thing should be mighty sprightly!

another good detail i like is the different performance parameters set out by each company before they designed the car. it's a better approach at these price points than what they did with the toyabaru's. i'm still guessing a top spec supra to be around 45k excluding a r compound "track" model. with an inline 4 coming in under 40. i bet the Z4 will start at 50 for a 4 cylinder. badge and luxuries. i think these 2 will have a greater degree of separation than most people think.

 

[BRZer86]

Get me their email address. The amount of MT FRS, BRZ, and GT86 in the market should make for a strong business case. I don’t want to hear the different demographics argument because I recall seeing a range of generations rocking the FRS and BRZ. A MT Supra is as important to its heritage as reliability is to Toyota.

What a travesty.

 

[Blupra]

Get me their email address. The amount of MT FRS, BRZ, and GT86 in the market should make for a strong business case. I don’t want to hear the different demographics argument because I recall seeing a range of generations rocking the FRS and BRZ. A MT Supra is as important to its heritage as reliability is to Toyota.

What a travesty.

Preach!

 

[simply put]

i agree. the 2jz is legendary for the power it can take and rightly so. but the 6 speed connected to it had it's own status itself for taking that power! it was a getrag too if i remember correctly. short ratios. top speed in 6th.

 

[Scino]

I want that V6TT in new LS tuned for more output mated with MT. Should be good for 500+hp. Good that Supra gets Toyota interior instead of boring BMW one.

 

[Mr.Jay]

I see most of you guys are dissapointed about the manual . I became dissapointed in general when some details were beggining to emerge , because it was clear to me that many things were compromised . I mean this car is a z4 without the canvas over the seats(something that has been done in the past solely by BMW) and they go ahead and market it as a supra , it is a very cheap thing to try to get some sales because of something better engineers built . Tada can be a good engineer , but certainly not for sports cars , at least at the moment . Toyota havenät built a sports car since about 2006 i think with the mr2 , the 86 is mostly a subaru , it has flat 4 engine also it rides on impreza modified platform . The new supra is a reskinned z4 , other car makers make their own sports cars , and keep in mind poorer car makers do it . It certainly makes toyota seem cheap having a bmw as a toyota halo vehicle .

The biggest difference I feel about the twins and the Supra/Z4 project was that Subaru didn't want to build it. Toyota made the case and built the car to show Subaru. To me it felt like a Toyota driven project since between the two manufactures they actually have rwd coupe experience thus the car in ways feels like a Toyota but its is all Subaru parts for the most part. This new joint project feels like it was purely a R&D split and Toyota only got to design a different looking car so far as BMW out of the two partners has more weight to throw around when talking about designing a inline 6 rwd car aka thus feels like a reskined BMW project driven and built by BMW.

I hope I am wrong. A part of me was hoping since there was so many trims that the lower spec trims would be for cost saving using bmw stuff while top spec would be a true toyota with a toyota engine and manual trans lol I know I was dreaming

 

[LEG1T]

Dear Tada, Please make a manual transmission..

 

[Scino]

It's like saying STI doesn't need MT and Boxer engine.

 

[mas921]

It seems like the drivetrain has not yet been nailed down. Maybe it's time to petition Toyota for a MT??

This is a very good idea actually! Should be easy to quantify and give the damn bean counters at Toyota an actual figure instead of a cloud of sentimental forum posts or articles!

How to get this started?

 

[MotorFF]

After that image of the race car with 3-pedals. Relax, we are getting a manual.
I know that manual box is the only way I'll be buying this, since 2 seater and usefulness has gone out the window.

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