A90 Supra life cycle: Incremental updates? New variants coming? What's next?

[AJRMKV]

All the rumors point to a (Japan only) GRMN. I don't buy the S58 rumors however. Beyond this, (and without any evidence behind me), I'd suggest we'll see some colour changes along with some minor tweaks ala hairpin+. There's also a chance the slightly updated version of the B58 will be dropped in too.

And just for the record, in the highly unlikely event that a Targa is announced, I'm officially going to go postal.

To my knowledge, an "M" engine has never been used outside the BMW M lineup aside from the occasional supercar partnership over the years.

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[Stvee]

To my knowledge, an "M" engine has never been used outside the BMW M lineup aside from the occasional supercar partnership over the years.

There have been some smaller manufacturers like Wiesmann and Ascari that have used S series motors.

I can't think of any major ones though.

 

[AJRMKV]

There have been some smaller manufacturers like Wiesmann and Ascari that have used S series motors.

I can't think of any major ones though.

There you go. I can't see BMW allowing the motor to be used in a lighter performance car platform that can threaten the M2.. Unless the vehicle is limited to very low production quantities and market limited (Japan)..

So I guess it is a possibility tbf. Unlikely though.

 

[Sharocks]

The chances of a Supra with an S motor installed and sold by Toyota is about zero.

If an aftermarket company did the swap and sold some, that's something else entirely.

But BMW won't let that happen even if it was for a small amount of cars.

They stopped doing skunkworks projects in the early 2000's.

 

[KahnBB6]

Then here's a thought:

If Toyota doesn't get BMW's coveted S58 engine as a drop-in upgrade then what if the GRMN spec Supra instead takes the B58D engine (or TU version) to Motomachi or Yamaha and then significantly reworks it themselves.... albeit in quite limited numbers since this way of doing things always takes more time and costs more.

Examples:

-Ford sending new 1969-70 Mustangs to Kar Kraft to have very specific modifications off the main assembly line in order to fit their monster Boss 429 street legal NASCAR engine for a mere two model years. This translated into low production numbers and a very high asking price before markups.

-Mercedes sending their W124 sedan to Porsche in the early 90's to get their engine bays, suspensions and bodywork modified in order to fit the 5.0L 320hp-ish V8 engine for the 500E/E500 low production models. The regular assembly line wouldn't even allow the widened bodywork to fit so partially completed cars had to be shipped back and forth between neighboring Mercedes and Porsche assembly plants to complete each car. This also translated to low production numbers and significantly higher sales price for each example. Not to mention the exclusivity.

There are many, many, many more similar situations where special low production cars were built at great expense mostly off main assembly line processes with partially completed regular versions of those cars as starting points.

...

Maybe Toyota GR will not do such a thing but if BMW denies them the S58 and they REALLY want to then this would be my guess as to how a truly differentiated and higher power GRMN Supra would happen within the remaining production years through the final MY2026.

 

[BMWAF]

There are many, many, many more similar situations where special low production cars were built at great expense mostly off main assembly line processes with partially completed regular versions of those cars as starting points.

But only one example of what Toyota has done with the GRMN badge.

Like the GRMN Yaris, the GRMN Supra is likely going to be a disappointment because of relatively minor changes and critically, it will likely be Japan only anyway.. or otherwise unobtainable for other reasons - price/availability/etc.

I have no insider information, just looking at the facts as they stand without any real vested interest.

 

[KahnBB6]

^^ We will see. Maybe we'll be pleasantly surprised and maybe not. Apparently this will now be the last pure gasoline turbo Supra in a traditional layout with a manual and auto on offer... so if Toyota wants to send off this style of car with a huge bang they have options to do so... should they choose to.

But at the end of the day as of MY2023 with the options and features now available they've already built a great Supra. If they add nothing else of significance from here on out it will still be a great Supra.

But I think Toyota's new chairman (Akio) and new CEO (Sato) both wouldn't let it just be left as-is before this model run finally concludes to give way for the next generation model.

I also have no insider info on any of this. It just makes little sense to not do some kind of proper low volume GRMN Supra as a send-off to pure ICE while they're still in production.

They came out with a manual transmission version after all, so why not a higher performance edition?

 

[BMWAF]

But I think Toyota's new chairman (Akio) and new CEO (Sato) both wouldn't let it just be left as-is before this model run finally concludes to give way for the next generation model.

Did the A80 go out with said bang?

If you really think about it, how many of your hopes and dreams are you ascribing to Toyota management? Forget all the marketing quotes - Have you forgotten Toyota told us the fake vents on the Supra were designed to become functional?

CEOs just want to make money and grow their business. They work hard to ensure the things car enthusiasts care about don't screw up their business decisions - that's why they're CEOs and we're Supra owners.

Lets face it, if stopping the Supra line right now somehow brought Toyota untold profits, that line would be shuttered without batting an eye lid!

And finally, and with all due respect, consider how your predictions for the car and your hopes and dreams for the car align: If they are eerily similar, I'd venture there's likely a flaw in your reasoning.

 

[KahnBB6]

Like the GRMN Yaris, the GRMN Supra is likely going to be a disappointment because of relatively minor changes and critically, it will likely be Japan only anyway.. or otherwise unobtainable for other reasons - price/availability/etc.

I have no insider information, just looking at the facts as they stand without any real vested interest.

Did the A80 go out with said bang?

If you really think about it, how many of your hopes and dreams are you ascribing to Toyota management? Forget all the marketing quotes - Have you forgotten Toyota told us the fake vents on the Supra were designed to become functional?

Personally I've had a good laugh about the fake vents thing on A90's. I never cared and still don't care when the rest of the car is pretty good as it is

CEOs just want to make money and grow their business. They work hard to ensure the things car enthusiasts care about don't screw up their business decisions - that's why they're CEOs and we're Supra owners.

Lets face it, if stopping the Supra line right now somehow brought Toyota untold profits, that line would be shuttered without batting an eye lid!

They didn't have to make the Supra in the first place to maintain the sales of their volume models. Similarly they didn't have to make the GT86/GR86 or GR Yaris as a homologation car or the GR Corolla. They also didn't have to lose money on every Lexus LFA they made.

Ultimately it's to our benefit that the executives at Toyota decided to make these special cars at all so whatever their bottom line may be with or without them in the product line.... they are (or were in the case of the LFA) available with whatever options and trim could be had and that's all that really matters to people like us.

The A80 Supra was designed during Japan's around bubble economy around 1991 and went on sale just as their economy started to tank and thus affected sales. The world sportscar market (especially in the U.S.) also was in decline at that time. Of course they weren't going to do much more with a very expensive to produce car that wasn't selling well in those times.

Also in the 1990's the Japanese manufacturer philosophy tended to be not to throw a huge amount of redesign money at a model that was about to be discontinued and which was already selling very poorly at the end of the model run.

Also, 2002 was the last model year in Japan for several beloved sportscar models all due to incoming more stringent emissions standards for 2003+ which their engines could not meet:

Toyota Supra A80 /2JZ-GTE
Nissan Skyline GT-R /RB26DETT
Nissan Silvia / SR20DET
Mazda RX-7 / 13B-REW

Subaru's EJ turbocharged engines, Toyota's 1JZ-GTE and 3S-GE BEAMS and 3S-GTE later revision engines survived this for a while. The 1JZ-GTE and 3S engines were able to hang on until about 2007 or so. The 2JZ-GTE was no more after 2002. Only the 2JZ-GE VVT-i and fuel economy oriented non-turbo and narrow valve angle head 2JZ-FSE made it longer.

Toyota decided not to do any more engine revisions to the 2JZ-GTE under those circumstances. Nissan did it with super limited (and in some cases bought back chassis) R34 GT-R's so I guess there was that but these were ultra-expensive even at that time.

And finally, and with all due respect, consider how your predictions for the car and your hopes and dreams for the car align: If they are eerily similar, I'd venture there's likely a flaw in your reasoning.

I can't help it if you don't like my reasoning about the future of the GR Supra A90 and of other future GR models and of the future of enthusiast cars in general. I read all the industry news that I can to try my best to get a handle on where things are going from the general to the specific. I prefer to take a positive and cautiously optimistic approach rather than a pessimistic one.

But look... at the end of the day either we'll have a GRMN Supra MKV with a significant engine and overall driveline upgrade or we won't. Either it will be limited to Japan or it will be a limited model in several other additional world markets.

Right now I am more than pleased with the existence and availability of the 2023+ MKV 3.0L Manual cars. That is already all I had personally wished would become available and it happened.

I am still optimistic that we'll see a GRMN variant. It was never on my buyer's radar to begin with but given how Toyota decided to market this generation of Supra I still feel there is a good chance for it.

Will people outside Japan get a chance to even try to buy it and will we all like it? We'll see.

 

[BMWAF]

Personally I've had a good laugh about the fake vents thing on A90's. I never cared and still don't care when the rest of the car is pretty good as it is

Dude.. you've seriously missed the point.. It's not about caring whether the vents are fake or not, it's about the fact that Toyota flat out lied about them!

Anyway, all good. We'll just have to wait and see.

 

[FLtrackdays]

Dude.. you've seriously missed the point.. It's not about caring whether the vents are fake or not, it's about the fact that Toyota flat out lied about them!

Anyway, all good. We'll just have to wait and see.

Before they come out with anything new, they need to figure out how to deliver a car to Australia! How long have you been waiting?

 

[BMWAF]

Before they come out with anything new, they need to figure out how to deliver a car to Australia! How long have you been waiting?

I placed my order on the first of July, 2022. Ugh.

 

[Johnny Neat]

Does anyone know if we will at some point, even by a 3rd party, ever get the option to have the Wasabi Edition's center exhaust and rear for purchase? I'd love it!!!!

 

[Johnny Neat]

... for 2024-2025 give us updated z4 interior dash which looks ok but it's what they upgraded to. Mcar seats...

This all day. Z4 interior is way sexier ALL AROUND compared to the Supra's. Those seats!

 

[FuzzyRev]

Dude.. you've seriously missed the point.. It's not about caring whether the vents are fake or not, it's about the fact that Toyota flat out lied about them!

A: Get over it
B: I could prove in a court of law that it wasn't an outright fabrication. It may very well be misleading, but you'd lose the argument regarding a black & white, malicious lie. Toyota knows how to say things and still be well within the legal parameters of 'truthful corporate statements.'
Case dismissed.

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