Brake Pad Discussion - Don't take R1 Ceramic to track day!

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nibble

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Clearly you’ve never driven with me. ?

And you can take your car to the track and enjoy it without it being a time attack machine. If you’re goal is purely time attack the pads are the least of your worries.

-RJM

sure come on down to NJMP or lime rock.:lol:
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VA90

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Does anyone have recommendations for a pad for street and occasional track use? CSG CP seems highly regarded but wondering what other options are worth considering. I don't mind a high-dust pad--more hoping for a nice bite and better feedback over the stock pads. But I am hoping for a pad that isn't noisy.
 

gcmak

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Does anyone have recommendations for a pad for street and occasional track use? CSG CP seems highly regarded but wondering what other options are worth considering. I don't mind a high-dust pad--more hoping for a nice bite and better feedback over the stock pads. But I am hoping for a pad that isn't noisy.
I'm one of the few who run CSG CP pads front/rear and keep them in the car between autox, HPDE, and regular driving. I've found their temp limits at Laguna Seca but that's to be expected from street/track pad - though they never did fade or let me down - a bit of smearing began to occur as I exceeded their ideal temp range.

They dust far less than the OEM pads. I like to detail my cars and what I appreciate about the CP pads is not only do they dust less, the dust is far easier to clean - easiest short of ceramic pads I've used in the past.

They're totally fine to run on the daily - you might have initial brake noise when cold (though OEM pads do too), and they can rattle a bit in the caliper on slower/bumpy surfaces as they're not adhered to the pistons like the OEM pads are. The bite on the street is nicer than OEM - they're progressive, without the jerkiness of overly grabby factory pads.

Lastly the wear. They just last. Multiple events later and having gone through tires, the pads are 50%+ remaining.

I'm just one data point but I'll be sticking with the brand and likely swapping my fronts out for C1/C21 pads but leaving the CPs in the rear till they wear out (since I haven't experienced any smearing/issues in the rear yet).

EDIT:
oops, realized i commented on this thread in the beginning already but my opinion hasn't changed and I've done more events since and one more this coming Friday.
 

Nocturnal LE

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Sounds like the 2 pads to consider for street and track is CSG CP and Hawk HPS. Any other ones to consider?
 

kyippee

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Hawk pads are not very good - skip those imho. Ferodo DS2500 is another street/track pad. It's not an amazing track pad, but it's been better than stock on the E92 M3 platform while being street friendly. Some copy pasta:

Ferodo DS2500:
The DS2500 is currently the best hybrid track/street pad on the market. It features the moderately high bite and solid fade resistance of a track pad, with the relatively low dust and noise levels of a street pad. When used as a street pad, it can produce some squeal on certain vehicle platforms. During aggressive driving the DS2500 is known for its flat torque curve, which means as temperatures go up, the response through the brake pedal remains consistent. If you drive aggressively on the street, do some canyon runs, autoX, and maybe some light track duty on street tires, the DS2500 is tough to beat. "
My supra is a light track car on the side, with daily driving being the main usage. I have another car for lap times. Eventually it will be my track car when I sell my other car.

I have some stuff on the way, but I will try Stoptech Trophy Sport 380x32mm front BBK + Verus front brake ducts + DS2500 pads along with stock rear calipers and pads. Tires will be either my stock PSS or Conti ECF. The idea is that I'll try to keep the pad temperatures low enough to avoid rapid pad wear. The DS2500 are known to wear quickly when overheated, like the stock pads.

When it becomes a 80% track car, I'll switch to CSG C21+C11
 
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I was answering question from other member and I thought this would help others as well.

---

never, ever use R1 concept pads. this almost caused an accident in my student's Supra recently.

This is something I'm still trying to figure out as I would replace pads about once a year.. so this is what I have so far.

Stock pads are not bad. since there are many in forum replaced it, I have asked (WTB) "used" pads in the forum which I'm on now.

I have used Hawk DTC-60, front only. great pad and excellent braking but harsh on rotors. After few use, stock rotors started to show metal fatigue. also, noisy when cold which is expected from track pads. It also could've been compounded /w original pad but eventually, I had to replace it with ebay, used OEM. - this is what I'm using at the moment.

So above are what i used so far. what i'm experimenting now is below.

Hawk HP+ front & rear, Zimmermann Rotors front left & right- left & right is different as stock is - and Stock rotor in rear. I have not yet mounted them all yet but I'm quite excited to try it soon.

In correct mind, I should use Zimmermann rotors /w DTC-60 and swap it when i'm not on track. but I'm getting lazy and I wanted a setup good enough for track as well as street so I don't have to swap. if you are interested, contact below for the setup. they are track oriented shop.


for other pads I have not used,
- Carbotech - I used it for S2000 and it was great but don't know much about Supra.
- Hawk HPS - One of my student had it and said it was "alright". he is a Racer and races in AER.

so.. cheapest option is looking for slightly used pads. more expensive options are, replacing rotors and pads with track grade like zimmermann rotors and DTC-60 front and DTC-30 in the rear. but it really is for you to find out what works for you. other factors are tires, brake fluid, brake line, and others as well as your preference.. for example, when I used DTC-60 front only it was ridiculously stable for me as I prefer very minuscule slight lock up in the rear under braking. But that may not be your preference.
 
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I have run several pads but have not found any to last more than four-track days. I am willing to pay more if I could find an endurance pad with good stopping power. I always track the wear on the pads after every event and mark the box with the results. Below are the pads that I ran this past weekend. The Carbotechs I only had on the car Saturday and the DFC's on Sunday.

The Carbotech XP10's last four-track days.
Brakes Carbotech XP10.jpg


I would not recommend Z16, Z23 or Z26 for track use, they will kill you after the rotor gets hot. Ask me how I know, well let me tell you. I always carry back up pads for both the front and back, I accidentally grabbed the Z26 pads, which I have used for the street and mounted them and drove on the track and quickly realized that the stopping power went away after the brakes got hot, not fun.

Best bang for the buck are these Dynamic Friction pads 1000186700 (if you can find them), they only last 2 or 3 track days and the price is incrediable. I would rate them as good as the XP10's.
Brakes Dynamic Friction 1000186700 Track Pads.jpg
1657127069173.png



Brakes Carbotech XP10 and Dynamic Friction 1000186700 Track Pads.jpg
 

razorlab

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I have run several pads but have not found any to last more than four-track days. I am willing to pay more if I could find an endurance pad with good stopping power.
Sounds like you need CSG pads. Those carbotechs you have been using are notorious for not lasting long.

Hell, even Project Mu club racers will last longer.
 

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I just did a track day at CMP with Endless MX72 pads and RF650 fluid and I am blown away at the performance. CMP is notoriously hard on brakes (so I've been told) and I had absolutely zero hint of brake fade, etc... Repeatable stopping power, very little dust and zero noise. So far they appear to be an excellent option for double-duty. My stock rotors look a little blue and crusty but some regular driving should clean them up.
 
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I've been using Hawk HP+ and so far it's OK. I will be testing more during up-coming event at lime rock. just one thing I'd like to note.. when replacing brake pads, put shim on. most brake pads doesn't include shim. either get new shim or reuse shim off OEM. I had clunking noise and could not figure out for a while until i put on those shims. I will know more after next trackday.
 

razorlab

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I've been using Hawk HP+ and so far it's OK. I will be testing more during up-coming event at lime rock. just one thing I'd like to note.. when replacing brake pads, put shim on. most brake pads doesn't include shim. either get new shim or reuse shim off OEM. I had clunking noise and could not figure out for a while until i put on those shims. I will know more after next trackday.
As soon as you get to a good pace, those HP+'s will disappoint you. They can only take like half the heat of an actual good track pad.
 
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I just did a track day at CMP with Endless MX72 pads and RF650 fluid and I am blown away at the performance. CMP is notoriously hard on brakes (so I've been told) and I had absolutely zero hint of brake fade, etc... Repeatable stopping power, very little dust and zero noise. So far they appear to be an excellent option for double-duty. My stock rotors look a little blue and crusty but some regular driving should clean them up.
Hey, How's it going? Funny running into you on here.

After this thread, I will be asking the question about the weak steering components that bend after running over the outer rumble strips.

Right control arm.png
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