Featured Car & Driver Dyno Results: The 2020 Toyota Supra Makes More Power Than Toyota Claims

Discussion in 'General Supra Topics' started by BrettS, May 21, 2019.

  1. mas921

    mas921 Well-Known Member

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    that's at the crank ;)

    To show the whole picture; I googled them dyno results of some of the A90's competitor's, all stock (but be aware dyno's can vary a bit).

    DynoJet (SAE) WHP / WTQ (lb.ft):

    A90 Supra 339/427
    Cayman GT4 345/315
    Cayman 718S 320/310
    911 GT3RS 400/295 (not in the same $$$ range though)
    Corvette C7 400/390
    Mustang GT350 470/390
    Camaro SS 410/410
    BMW M2 335/370
    BMW M4 420/410

    and..

    BMW F3x 340i (B58) 300/310

    the Supra has more Torque than the (NA V8) American muscle, yet the WHP is more akin to the Caymans.

    hope ECU tuners can maintain the low rpm 's psi up to redline. As that would give +500WHP. (~420lbft x 6500rpm / 5252 = 520WHP). won't need more than this for a long time xD

    p.s.: I recall somebody saying its a "370z" competitor with that 335HP motor...LOL!>>
    370Z 280/235 ...a bit over half the A90's torque .pfffft...
     
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  2. madweazl

    madweazl Well-Known Member

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  3. MA617M

    MA617M Well-Known Member

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    without doing the calcs (which, without the data on the ZF8 torque converter is nigh on impossible) I'd estimate between 500-550Nm at the engine for the peak torque...
     
  4. SupraFiend

    SupraFiend Well-Known Member

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    Nope, that is at the wheels. Did some googling on Dyno Dynamics dyno's and its measuring wheel torque, like all chassis dyno's do. Some dynos convert to crank torque with a bullshit flat multiplication and others try to measure the drive train loss, both are a waste of time. However, no dyno measures HP or power in any form, they only measure torque. Also apparently these dyno dynamics list numbers routinely 10 to 15% lower then a dyno jet (not unlike a mustang dyno). Forget that dyno, it's also of an x3 (so awd maybe?).

    Here I found this...
    attachment.png

    "it’s a 440 8spd with the mppsk tune from bmw. No mods."
    https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1575160#post24263695

    I would expect the initial z4 m40 to be about the same. I say initial because I think there is going to be some retaliation here...

    Look at the numbers. 339whp is 1% off from the manufacturer's (BMW that is) advertised numbers, so with a 15% drivetrain loss and BMWs modern tradition of underating their turbo motors by about the same (which is a really good idea considering how widely their output can vary with temperature and fuel quality), the measured whp is inline. But come on guys, look at the torque, don't you see what's going on here? 427lbs/ft at the wheels? That's 15% over the manufacturer's claimed crank figures, and thus 15 percent over what BMW does!

    We know the Supra was saddled with the low flowing head and looking at the graph above we can see that that motor flows a little better at 6000rpm. What has happened here, is Toyota. BMW may have saddled them with the lesser motor, but they also gave them the software to tune it themselves. 3 words, digital boost control.

    This is mother fucking Toyota we are talking about here. Are you not aware of how Toyota operates and what they've done in the past? This is WRC level rule fudging shit here. They used to get stuck with restrictor valves in their race cars limiting top end and maximum hp, so they'd tune their engines to make as much torque as quickly and as low as possible. Torque made up high makes big HP numbers, but it's true, it's still torque that wins races, regardless where its made.

    Also they pulled shit like this too...
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/jalopn...acing-cheat-of-all-time-worked-1792828060/amp

    So to summarize, Toyota took the engine the deal mandated, claimed the numbers BMW told them they could claim, then tuned the living shit out of it...
     
  5. XtremeMaC

    XtremeMaC Well-Known Member

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    #50 May 22, 2019
    Last edited: May 22, 2019
    Cleaned up image:
    Dyno2.png

    Some overlay effort with SupraFiend's attachment. (his graph is marked with shades of gray in the below image), Supra kept the same colors as C&D.

    2019-05-22 01_20_47-Window.png
     
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  6. F1 Silver Arrows

    F1 Silver Arrows Well-Known Member

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    #51 May 22, 2019
    Last edited: May 22, 2019
    Hmmmm isn't that what I would say? That Toyota would always read between the lines also the fact that they know their mfing shit? What the did the whiny ass idiots on the internet do? Bitch. Because they're nothing better than that.

    I do have issues with the Supra about some vents, interior, lack of a stick and some very small niggles. But the only thing that I really wished was that it was the sultry, long, sexy and curvaceous car that the FT-1 was (which the A90 is to a certain extent).

    BUT THE TORQUEEEEE HOLY FUCKING SHIITTTTT!!!! THAT TORQUE NUMBER IS OVER 9000 HOLY HELL. Not only did they surpass their claimed 365 + ~60. BUT MAKE THAT YOUR WHP AND IT IS SOMETHING LIKE THE MONSTROUS 500 LB-FT OF TORQUE TO THE CRANK. THAT'S 135 LB-FT OF TORQUE MORE THAN CLAIMED. Think about this for a second. This isn't even the top dog model. This is like the MkIV NA model. Imagine the "Turbo" equivalent (GRMN).

    Yeah anyone who says anymore bullshit about Toyota, BMW or the Supra/Z4 project, we should just ignore them from now on. We won this useless dick measuring battle that the rest of the internet tried to start.
     
  7. Guff

    Guff Moderator
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    @SupraFiend funny you mention WRC and their tuning strategies because Tada-San told me word for word, "We took some strategies from our WRC team when tuning this car on regards to making torque quickly. We worked within our parameters like how the WRC team works with restrictors. The end result is a car that feels much faster than you would think"

    :p
     
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  8. F1 Silver Arrows

    F1 Silver Arrows Well-Known Member

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    Feels and is much faster than people think the numbers say. That torque number is absolutely nuts. That power is solid too.
     
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  9. bogglo

    bogglo Well-Known Member

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    Remember when Tada compared the power to the Lexus F cars?
     
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  10. MA617M

    MA617M Well-Known Member

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    not to shit on your parade, but torque is multiplied at the wheels. engine torque is less than wheel torque. it is less than 427ftlbshj at the engine.

    imagine it like a lever. rotational torque at the engine is multiplied through torque convertor, then gear ratio, then final drive ratio, then drive wheel overall radius.
     
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  11. F1 Silver Arrows

    F1 Silver Arrows Well-Known Member

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    Shit I've been really busy lately and when I saw this news I couldn't have been any more ecstatic but I couldn't spend more time to look deeper and just celebrated lol.

    I'm aware of how all of this works and how everything is documented at the wheels on a dyno, but you're suggesting that it only makes something along the lines of 400 lb-ft of torque at the crank sounds a little below for the way this car performs. But I get how the numbers show up is exacerbated from the quick gearing ratios from that automatic, and torque getting intensely high at the wheels. But I was talking about the crank here.
     
  12. Bryster

    Bryster Well-Known Member

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    this is the base version,imagine the GRMN?
    91b03406fd54a6a3-bumblebee-tro-thanh-ngoi-sao-trong-trailer-cuoi-transformers-5.gif
     
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  13. BRX

    BRX Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, even though I would love to believe it makes that much torque it's simply too high to be true probably because it was in 5th rather than 6th. Maybe if it was a diesel. It would probably make as much as BMW/Toyota advertise it would at the wheels though which is not bad by any means.

    Almost the same amount of torque at the wheels as Toyota's most powerfull V8 for crying out loud. I remember when Tada made that reference awhile back and he obviously knew how much it would make on a dyno. Surprisingly almost all RC-F dyno charts I found they made as much torque at the wheels as they are advertised to make at the engine as well.
     
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  14. madweazl

    madweazl Well-Known Member

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    It was a stock engine and tune and the correction factors used for the "crank" figures (shown) are at the bottom of the graph.
     
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  15. mas921

    mas921 Well-Known Member

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    woops...my bad :p

    well, i stand corrected!
     

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