Chris Harris on GR Yaris and Supra.

[justbake]

If you read this thread you would know why it was posted

Feel free to explain then, I have read it twice and I still think is a ridiculous argument and does not address implied development progress over 27 years. Find me a single modern car that isn't better in those categories than its 1993 counterpart across the board.

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[DesmoSD]

True, and all of it makes sense. But I feel it's a bit biased when comparing the A90 to a 911 though.

I'm curious as to what would be a justifiable NEW sports car or "sports car" purchase under $60K would be.

I researched quite a bit when I had my BRZ. So yes, I am stepping up and not down from a 911 to a Supra. I couldn't find anything else after countless test drives from dealers, friends and Turo that would've made me happier than after driving the A90.

IMO, in the <60K range, prob the C8 but who buys the entry level version. As far as a new sports car, I want to check out the 2021 M4, esp since it has a manual transmission.

When it comes to sports cars, I don't cap my purchase at a specific price range but at the same time, stay within budget. I'd want to get the right car that feels right, shifts right, drives right, checks all of my boxes and won't depreciate as fast. If that means to wait and even spend more, I'm ok with that and that's what I'd do.

 

[ogun228]

Well, DesmoSD, for sure the Supra is NOT a 911 nor should it, IMHO be compared to one: different architecture, different philosophies, different engine location, you name it...No other car handles like a 911 because of the rear engine whose faults have been eradicated.

Rather I feel the Supra should be viewed vs like cars, 'vette, Cayman, Boxster, TT , Mustangs, Camaros etc..In that company, it shines very bright but will always again IMHO come up short vs a modern 911.

For the price, it is difficult to do better than a new Supra. BTW the maintenance on my '09 Carrera S pdk cab for the last 7 years was north of 28k...do the math.

 

[DesmoSD]

Well, DesmoSD, for sure the Supra is NOT a 911 nor should it, IMHO be compared to one: different architecture, different philosophies, different engine location, you name it...No other car handles like a 911 because of the rear engine whose faults have been eradicated.

Rather I feel the Supra should be viewed vs like cars, 'vette, Cayman, Boxster, TT , Mustangs, Camaros etc..In that company, it shines very bright but will always again IMHO come up short vs a modern 911.

For the price, it is difficult to do better than a new Supra. BTW the maintenance on my '09 Carrera S pdk cab for the last 7 years was north of 28k...do the math.

So it shouldn't be compared to a 911 but rather compared to a C8 and a Cayman, Boxster, Mustang and Camaro? C8 and Cayman are mid engine, the Boxter is a open top, the Mustang and Camaro have V8's.

TBH, all of them are apples to oranges as not one of them are a true comparison even though Tada benchmarked the Supra after the Cayman.

"And even though it's front-engine, Tada is benchmarking it against the mid-engine Porsche Cayman—he thinks you'll be able to compare the two, in terms of feel. "

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-ca...toyota-supra-tetsuya-tada-interview-goodwood/

28K for maintenance on a 997.2. I'm sorry to hear that but that's absurd. Perhaps you should ask your bf/husband to turn a wrench. Either you must not be a fan of DIY, need to fire your service advisor or you must have had a lemon.

https://rennlist.com/forums/997-forum/983303-running-cost-of-a-997-a.html

 

[RWhiz]

This is my garage, for the moment at least. I'm happy I had the 911 for 12 years, did all my maintenance, drove it on many track days, wine tours etc. Now it's time for a functional AC, integrated garage door opener, phone charger, in short a conversion from an analog driving experience to a digital one. Other facets came into play as well, but the 911 is going up for sale here shortly, with a little twinge of sadness I admit. I hear the discussions about the Supra vs. the 911 and really think... damn lets just go for a drive!

 

[BA9092]

Definitely apples and oranges...and bananas...and plums...and peaches... Lol.

A90 Supra vs c8? vs Camaro/Mustang? vs Boxster/Cayman? vs TT-RS?

The Supra is front engined, 6 cylinder, RWD. There's nothing in this group that compares. The others are mid-engine, V8 or AWD. The Supra was benchmarked against the Cayman, but that's still front vs mid-engine even though the Supra undercuts it by tens of thousands in price.

Pricewise, again NEW, only matches the (loaded) Camaro and Mustang. The Boxster/Cayman and TT-RS are way north of $70K, similarly optioned.

The "under $60K" C8 is an illusive unicorn. They have been selling for north of $75K (if you were an early order along with some markup) and are available CPO/used for nearly $100K. I'm still baffled that anyone is still comparing the C8 to the A90 - they were two iconic sports car redesigns that were introduced within a couple of months of one another. That's the only commonality they share and why they're being compared.

I know we have gotten way off-topic from the OP. Lol.

The A90 Supra is not perfect and there will always be critics. But it's pretty good for under $60K **BRAND NEW and FULLY OPTIONED OUT**

 

[Paolo]

The A90 Supra is not perfect and there will always be critics. But it's pretty good for under $60K **BRAND NEW and FULLY OPTIONED OUT**

+1
I think for the price, there a few cars out there like the Supra.

 

[jm6k]

This is my garage, for the moment at least. I'm happy I had the 911 for 12 years, did all my maintenance, drove it on many track days, wine tours etc. Now it's time for a functional AC, integrated garage door opener, phone charger, in short a conversion from an analog driving experience to a digital one. Other facets came into play as well, but the 911 is going up for sale here shortly, with a little twinge of sadness I admit. I hear the discussions about the Supra vs. the 911 and really think... damn lets just go for a drive!

I assume that 964 will bring you quite a profit if you bought it 12 years ago. It looks great. I'd love to have one, but just can't justify the price these days.

 

[autopc25]

Obviously I have tremendous interest in the Supra because I am still here hanging around and enjoying the Supra Forum. I think other members who say they don't like it probably do? Or at least have some envy? Otherwise why hang out on a forum that is specific to a car you don't like?

It's only fair to compare brand new cars to other new cars. What other new cars out there are like the Supra and within the same price point? You can buy a brand new 2020 or 2021 Supra for huge discounts now. It's possible to buy a brand new 2020 3.0 in the $48K range and a 2021 3.0 in the $51K range. Maybe less? That only makes it the Supra a even better buy for what you get. I suppose maybe the upcoming 400Z might be a contender? It's been a while since I have kept up with BMW but maybe one of the BMWs?

As far as Chris Harris, I like the guy and his channel. He's entitled to his single personal opinion. I usually am more in agreement with his opinions than not. I think he does make some valid points about Toyota and the Supra. Though I respect his opinion. Someone's opinion, either positive or negative, ultimately won't play much into my decision making. I will pass on something if I don't like it no matter how good everyone raves about it. I won't pass on something if there are some negative reviews. Not If I have some interest. I would check it out myself to see if it's a good fit and worthy of my money. I personally would buy a Supra. It's not perfect. but imho it is fun as hell. It gets my pulse up and adrenaline going. I think it's great for what it is. It's a great weekend toy, daily driver, GT road trip car, occasional driving event or track day car. All with a brand new car warranty.

 

[RWhiz]

I assume that 964 will bring you quite a profit if you bought it 12 years ago. It looks great. I'd love to have one, but just can't justify the price these days.

Thanks, yea it was bought during the housing crisis and it's appreciated somewhat. I've really enjoyed owning and working on it, just don't have the time right now to give it the upkeep it deserves.

 

[jm6k]

Obviously I have tremendous interest in the Supra because I am still here hanging around and enjoying the Supra Forum. I think other members who say they don't like it probably do? Or at least have some envy? Otherwise why hang out on a forum that is specific to a car you don't like?

It's only fair to compare brand new cars to other new cars. What other new cars out there are like the Supra and within the same price point? You can buy a brand new 2020 or 2021 Supra for huge discounts now. It's possible to buy a brand new 2020 3.0 in the $48K range and a $2021 3.0 in the $51K range. Maybe less? That only makes it the Supra a even better buy for what you get. I suppose maybe the upcoming 400Z might be a contender? It's been a while since I have kept up with BMW but maybe one of the BMWs?

As far as Chris Harris, I like the guy and his channel. He's entitled to his single personal opinion. I usually am more in agreement with his opinions than not. I think he does make some valid points about Toyota and the Supra. Though I respect his opinion. Someone's opinion, either positive or negative, ultimately won't play much into my decision making. I will pass on something if I don't like it no matter how good everyone raves about it. I won't pass on something if there are some negative reviews. Not If I have some interest. I would check it out myself to see if it's a good fit and worthy of my money. I personally would buy a Supra. It's not perfect. but imho it is fun as hell. It gets my pulse up and adrenaline going. I think it's great for what it is. It's a great weekend toy, daily driver, GT road trip car, occasional driving event or track day car. All with a brand new car warranty.

I'm still here hoping something pushes me over the edge to get one instead of taking a risk on a 996/997. I'd take a 911 pretty much no question over the Supra, but the potential bore scoring and crazy cost of a rebuild have me looking at Supras.

I don't think Chris Harris is that far off on his comments, it's the fact that he can't see past them to give the car a fair assessment that I see a problem with.

 

[legacy_etu]

Interesting , I like Chris’ reviews most of the time. He does get hung up sometimes in his vision on what a car SHOULD be. I seem to remember him disliking the GT350..... not because it was a bad car but he feels it is an American muscle car and as such it should just be a straight line brute and not handle (like it does) . Really? I’m wondering if some of his dislike for the Supra is the same. He’s hung up on what it was and not what it is. I mean the suspension bits on the Supra are lifted from the M2 which he praises. Someone correct me if I’m wrong here with the suspension bits info.

At the end of the day I could care less though his opinion of it. All that matters is I enjoy the hell out of it.

 

[autopc25]

You've covered the question that you asked me. The very tight crisp and heavy steering of a 911 along with open view due to the low slung hood are also excellent benefits. They just feel proper, tight and checks off all of the boxes.

I would own a MKV regardless if it was built out of Austria. I just felt like the car didn't impress me. It felt like I was sitting at a 45 degree angle, the A pillars were huge like a tank, the hood bulge was blocking my perf, the steering wheel was very light and not as connected to the ground, the exhaust and engine sounded very fake, blind spots were horrific, the stereo and infotainment was weak, handling around the canyons felt bland, shifting was good but not that impressive like a PDK, FR engine dive was noticeable. I couldn't fathom dropping 55K on one.

Maybe you mean heavier as-in not as power assisted when not under power? I am not sure?

Personally I have the opposite opinion in regards to the 911 steering feeling heavy. I owned a 997.2 C4S with Sports Chrono and PASM. The rear engine placement is advantageous for braking and putting down power but not for steering feel under load. The 997 series all have the same front end lift under load and hard acceleration. That makes the steering feel very light, almost loose, under heavy load under certain circumstances. I would think the C2, not having the C4S all-wheel drive's power distribution, would even be more dramatic.

I did notice a difference between the 2020 and 2021 steering. The 2021 was not as light in terms of power assist. Both could have better road feel for sure.

I agree on the Supra having poor visibility. I had flash backs to my 370Z. At least there are power seats with memory in the Supra to get you back to a acceptable seating position if someone else changes it. There are also the safety alerts for blind spots. Personally I am used to relying on properly adjusted mirrors.

I love the "fake" exhaust and engine sounds of the Supra. lol. I think it adds to the over all experience. Plus you can turn it off I believe? I did not have a sport exhaust on my 911. The 997 series did not have much "infotainment" so to speak of? I had the upgraded stereo and Nav in my 997.2 and the upgraded Supra sound system seems like it's better to my ears.

A torque converter automatic is not as good as a PDK performance wise but the gap is closing more. I think the Supra's ZF automatic in SPORT MODE is among the best I have tried for a torque converter automatic. It's damn good. For daily driving and bumper to bumper I think it's better than the PDK in my old C4S.

Full disclosure. My opinion are just mine. You know what hey say about opinions and body parts. lol. I don't own a Supra yet. I have only test driven several Supras for a total cumulative time of maybe a few hours total. Both 2020 and 2021 models. My longest test drive was in a used 2020 which lasted over a hour easily. I did not want to stop driving. It was that much fun for me. lol. Same could beside of my 911s.

Fully agree. Some used 997s are great value as long as you go in prepared and know about potential issues and the related expense.

 

[autopc25]

I'm still here hoping something pushes me over the edge to get one instead of taking a risk on a 996/997. I'd take a 911 pretty much no question over the Supra, but the potential bore scoring and crazy cost of a rebuild have me looking at Supras.

I don't think Chris Harris is that far off on his comments, it's the fact that he can't see past them to give the car a fair assessment that I see a problem with.

Let the seat of your pants make the decision. Go test drive both the Supra and 911. Try both 2020 and 2021 model Supras and a few different used 911s in your budget. You can't make a wrong decision as long as you understand the cost/risk between a new car with a warranty and a used car. Both are tons of fun and satisfying to drive.

 

[autopc25]

Interesting , I like Chris’ reviews most of the time. He does get hung up sometimes in his vision on what a car SHOULD be. I seem to remember him disliking the GT350..... not because it was a bad car but he feels it is an American muscle car and as such it should just be a straight line brute and not handle (like it does) . Really? I’m wondering if some of his dislike for the Supra is the same. He’s hung up on what it was and not what it is. I mean the suspension bits on the Supra are lifted from the M2 which he praises. Someone correct me if I’m wrong here with the suspension bits info.

At the end of the day I could care less though his opinion of it. All that matters is I enjoy the hell out of it.

Agreed! It's not like Harris is paying anyone's car loan. lol.

I read the same about the M2 suspension bits.

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