Chris Harris on GR Yaris and Supra.

Captain_Kirk

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It was a cost saving measure in terms of R&D and manufacturing. Remember if Toyota wanted to stick with an Inline 6, they would have to develop a new engine from the ground up. Thats millions of dollars right there. And then they would have to develop a new platform as well. Again, more cost.

From what i've heard, if the car was going to be a toyota only venture, it would have taken 5+ more years before we would have gotten one, and it would probably cost closer to the 80-90k USD price point in order for the company to make money back on a niche car.


BMW aside, a lot of people talk about it driving like a BMW. Well what does a Toyota drive like? An 86? One could argue that its more Subaru than it is a Toyota. Maybe an RFC? Would anyone actually have been happy if this car drove and handled like an RFC? At the end of the day people would just complain that they are paying for an RFC with a Toyota badge. RFC's are nice dont get me wrong, but (from my small time in one a few years back), its not a very engaging vehicle.

And then theres the interior, Toyota interiors arent exactly luxurious, the design language is very JDM in the sense that its not very inspiring. Lexus interiors are known for feeling outdated even in the newest models.

At the end of the day BMW gives us a very good inline 6 that gives us a car well over 400hp at the crank, an interior that is of finer quality than anything in Toyota's lineup, and an actual car to drive at a very competitive price point. I'm so happy that they made this venture. I love BMW and i love Toyota, this couldnt have been a better match in my opinion.
1st, It's called the RC-F...

2nd, just because you are using a RC chassis doesn't mean its going to drive and feel just like the Lexus that it is based on. Does the A80 Supra feel the same as the SC300/400? No it doesn't because the chassis and suspension were reworked and tuned differently.

3rd, agree and disagree. Most Toyota interiors aren't luxurious because they aren't luxury cars, but at least they are interesting to look at. BMW interior are boring AF. Every gen looks pretty much the same except they keep getting larger screens. With that said, I'm happy that Supra's interior isn't exactly the same as the Z4 or every other BMW. I'm looking at you 86/BRZ. :p

Agree, the final product isn't a bad car and seems to be priced reasonable. I think what CH and others were at least hoping for was more Toyota and less BMW.
 

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If only there was a middle ground to use a codeveloped platform and a Toyota motor. Too bad we only think in binary terms.
Having owned my fair shares of BMWs this would have been my preferred outcoming. But I'm not totally opposed on getting one. I'll just wait for them to work out all the kinks before jumping on board.
 

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1st, It's called the RC-F...

2nd, just because you are using a RC chassis doesn't mean its going to drive and feel just like the Lexus that it is based on. Does the A80 Supra feel the same as the SC300/400? No it doesn't because the chassis and suspension were reworked and tuned differently.

3rd, agree and disagree. Most Toyota interiors aren't luxurious because they aren't luxury cars, but at least they are interesting to look at. BMW interior are boring AF. Every gen looks pretty much the same except they keep getting larger screens. With that said, I'm happy that Supra's interior isn't exactly the same as the Z4 or every other BMW. I'm looking at you 86/BRZ. :p

Agree, the final product isn't a bad car and seems to be priced reasonable. I think what CH and others were at least hoping for was more Toyota and less BMW.

Yes RCF haha, i knew something sounded wrong.

And i do apologize, my mind runs faster than i can type properly, my quip about it driving like an RCF was less because the chassis would be the same but more towards how everyone keeps talking about how the Supra drives "like a bmw".

Yeah i do agree that BMW interiors all look the same. This car has the same interior as my parents 2012 328i lol. However i prefer that over most Toyota interiors. And yes Toyota isnt a luxury brand, which is why i brought up Lexus interiors. Personally i hated Toyota's attempt at the 86 interior. Remember there are 2 different interior trims for the 86/FRS/ The BRZ didnt get the lower trim so all that was purely Toyota. This is a 2013 car that still came with no infotainment and big ole plastic knobs for climate control. It looked bad. And sure its a 30k car but...i meanthats only 20k difference.
 

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This guy feels the same way as Mr. Harris.

The Toyota Supra Is Good, But It's Not the Japanese Sports Car I Wanted

https://www.roadandtrack.com/review...review-good-not-japanese-sports-car-i-wanted/
A lot of people would agree with it. Toyota is more capable of doing great things but it came down to budget and a missing slot in the Toyota lineup that didn't allow for an existing platform to build off. We all wanted everything a sports cars were before and cross the line since the MKIV set the bar so high.

"The Supra is fun to drive. But it feels more like an outsourced sports car, something put together to fill a gap in the middle range. I want more than that. I want it to feel special. I want it to break the rules. "

 

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It was a cost saving measure in terms of R&D and manufacturing. Remember if Toyota wanted to stick with an Inline 6, they would have to develop a new engine from the ground up. Thats millions of dollars right there. And then they would have to develop a new platform as well. Again, more cost.
Would just like to point out, that development of the 1UZ V8 cost a rumored $250-400 million dollars in 1980's money. Now this was an engine family that was put into at least 6 different models over 4-5 generations from 1989 to 2006. This I hope puts into perspective what developing an excellent engine costs, and why it was never going to happen for the Supra, what with all of 1 model to use it in and ICE only applications of new vehicles going away in the next 10 years or so.
 

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I wonder if a lot of the complaints we are getting are from people who are expecting something from a car that technically really existed.

What i mean is, the MKIV Supra was a great car for sure. But it was made legendary by two things. Fast and Furious and the 2jZ-GTE. The thing is, the Supra bone stock, wasnt much more legendary than say the Mitsubishi 3000GT.

I think because of this, many reviewers have this F&F mentality and this idea that the MKIV was some insane car that was heads and tails above the competition in every way possible. The engine when it came to high numbers was for sure. But i've only ever heard of the SUpra being fast in a straight line. I dont ever hear of it beating cars on the track or around corners. Not like the S2000.

So when a reviewer says that he wanted the new Supra to break the rules, how did it not? Look at it, it handles around the track better than a lot of cars and in some ways is better than the best car in its class (M2 Competition), while being capable of 1000 hp (look up papadakis racing), the've kept it at the same price as well. The MKIV Supra was 35-40k new in the 90s, adjusted for inflation thats around 55k which is what we are paying. It gets better gas mileage than the original, and it turns heads as much as a supercar does. It def breaks the rules.
 

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This has been said ad nauseum, but the car industry as a whole looks nothing like it did in the 90s when there was a bumper crop of excellent Japanese sports cars. Those cars are revered not just because of excellent (over)engineering and great designs, but also because of the state of a global economy that was conducive to automakers spending stupid money on pet projects and (relatively)low volume cars that are now considered classics. That will likely never occur again, and certainly not with purely ICE drivetrains. It was a truly unique time, but change is the only constant. You adapt and evolve, or you stagnate and die.
 

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I wonder if a lot of the complaints we are getting are from people who are expecting something from a car that technically really existed.

What i mean is, the MKIV Supra was a great car for sure. But it was made legendary by two things. Fast and Furious and the 2jZ-GTE. The thing is, the Supra bone stock, wasnt much more legendary than say the Mitsubishi 3000GT.

I think because of this, many reviewers have this F&F mentality and this idea that the MKIV was some insane car that was heads and tails above the competition in every way possible. The engine when it came to high numbers was for sure. But i've only ever heard of the SUpra being fast in a straight line. I dont ever hear of it beating cars on the track or around corners. Not like the S2000.

So when a reviewer says that he wanted the new Supra to break the rules, how did it not? Look at it, it handles around the track better than a lot of cars and in some ways is better than the best car in its class (M2 Competition), while being capable of 1000 hp (look up papadakis racing), the've kept it at the same price as well. The MKIV Supra was 35-40k new in the 90s, adjusted for inflation thats around 55k which is what we are paying. It gets better gas mileage than the original, and it turns heads as much as a supercar does. It def breaks the rules.
People, Chris Harris in this context, are expecting a car that represents the best Toyota has to offer. Regardless of how good this car is, especially at its price, it does not hit that mark as a halo/flagship model.
 

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Having owned my fair shares of BMWs this would have been my preferred outcoming. But I'm not totally opposed on getting one. I'll just wait for them to work out all the kinks before jumping on board.
I am definitely not opposed either, but at that point I will probably just get the G87 M2 when they come out since it will be a 2+2 A90 with a 6mt
 

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I wonder if a lot of the complaints we are getting are from people who are expecting something from a car that technically really existed.

What i mean is, the MKIV Supra was a great car for sure. But it was made legendary by two things. Fast and Furious and the 2jZ-GTE. The thing is, the Supra bone stock, wasnt much more legendary than say the Mitsubishi 3000GT.

I think because of this, many reviewers have this F&F mentality and this idea that the MKIV was some insane car that was heads and tails above the competition in every way possible. The engine when it came to high numbers was for sure. But i've only ever heard of the SUpra being fast in a straight line. I dont ever hear of it beating cars on the track or around corners. Not like the S2000.
If you were into cars pre 2001, you knew what was the Supra was all about. The 3000GT was revolutionary with the first active aero but it was a tank @ 3760 lbs. Hollywood just happen to catch on and exposed the import culture to non car enthusiats.

Craig Lieberman's Supra was all over magazines and winning import car shows around Southern California.

ba05e46ea4c20e7fa897e5aceacdac79.jpg


Vinny Ten was running 8's back in Y2K.
24564697.jpg


R&T loved it back in 1993.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a25695/drive-flashback-1993-toyota-supra-turbo/

1609290593056.png

 
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Right but my point is these are all modified. We already know the engine is fantastic. But stock for stock, i think people are expecting too much.

I mean yes the Supra was the supercar killer of the day, and granted i was still in my early teens when the car came out so i wasnt as into it as i could have been. But as someone said above, the industry and scene is soooo different now. Look at Honda and their NSX and what they tried to do. Its a great car, but a lot of people call it overpriced for the performance you get. They tried to modernize their icon and ended up with something that noone wants to buy and people still claim its not even a good sequel to the original NSX.

If you look at the Supra in regards to today's industry and car climate, it does so many things so well that we thought no company would care to do anymore. While its not a supercar killer in terms of performance, it stands out among them visually. Then you add the fact that the engine is also quite robust and has gobs of potential. it also performs around the track insanely well, then tack on the fact that it costs less than BMW's cheapest M car (M2 Competition) while being able to beat it in both 0-60 AND track, man Toyota really did something great here. And they still managed to keep a lot of what made the original Supra so great. A solid inline 6, a good GT car, more performance than what you read on paper.

Personally, i think they were so smart about this car. And yes maybe i'm fan boying a little, but its hard for me to find another vehicle that gives us so much for the cost, and the times that we are in.
 

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Right but my point is these are all modified. We already know the engine is fantastic. But stock for stock, i think people are expecting too much.

I mean yes the Supra was the supercar killer of the day, and granted i was still in my early teens when the car came out so i wasnt as into it as i could have been. But as someone said above, the industry and scene is soooo different now. Look at Honda and their NSX and what they tried to do. Its a great car, but a lot of people call it overpriced for the performance you get. They tried to modernize their icon and ended up with something that noone wants to buy and people still claim its not even a good sequel to the original NSX.

If you look at the Supra in regards to today's industry and car climate, it does so many things so well that we thought no company would care to do anymore. While its not a supercar killer in terms of performance, it stands out among them visually. Then you add the fact that the engine is also quite robust and has gobs of potential. it also performs around the track insanely well, then tack on the fact that it costs less than BMW's cheapest M car (M2 Competition) while being able to beat it in both 0-60 AND track, man Toyota really did something great here. And they still managed to keep a lot of what made the original Supra so great. A solid inline 6, a good GT car, more performance than what you read on paper.

Personally, i think they were so smart about this car. And yes maybe i'm fan boying a little, but its hard for me to find another vehicle that gives us so much for the cost, and the times that we are in.
Even in stock form, the MKIV was ahead of it's time. The Japanese car industry is indeed different compared to today and the reason why is a weak Japan economy compared to a very strong economy in the 90's. This allowed all of them to push the envelope and the reason why won't see this anytime soon. This happened with American muscle cars of the 70's then the gas crisis of the late 70's sealed their fate. They kind of rebounded back in the 90's but it took them 2 decades.

I think the MKV Supra is good, but not great. I'll give Toyota some credit for keeping the engine layout the same but they didn't build any of it. The problem I have with BMW's are that they depreciate too quickly. Unless you're in a urgent hurry and have to have a new car, both can be had for a lot less then MSRP.
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