Have a look at the Prototype Supra's engine

[Leeky]

Sorry, but this is childish and stupid

I know. But unfortunately people still buy BMW’s

Sponsored

 

[Guff]

I just want to mention something random. When we mention cost/development sharing between Toyota and BMW, many people think it's like this:

Project projected to cost: $10, BMW gives $5, Toyota gives $5.

When in reality it's like this:

Project projected to cost: $10, Toyota and BMW come together and say, how about this; "I put in $8, you put in $8, and let's make something that with a budget of $16 that will kick other $10 cars' asses."

These numbers are, of course, not indicative of actual dollar amounts spent on development.

 

[Modal170]

These numbers are, of course, not indicative of actual dollar amounts spent on development.

Huh, considering the outcry here, I thought I could buy a cheap jalopy since it appears it was just a slapped on car for profit.

 

[justbake]

I just want to mention something random. When we mention cost/development sharing between Toyota and BMW, many people think it's like this:

Project projected to cost: $10, BMW gives $5, Toyota gives $5.

When in reality it's like this:

Project projected to cost: $10, Toyota and BMW come together and say, how about this; "I put in $8, you put in $8, and let's make something that with a budget of $16 that will kick other $10 cars' asses."

These numbers are, of course, not indicative of actual dollar amounts spent on development.

Wait I thought Toyota was buying the car from BMW? /s

 

[A70TTR]

the order of magnitudes at which this project differs from perception of the public is definitely a thing... It's so different from what folks imagine and involves a lot of technology sharing vs dollar amounts as well (gross oversimplification).

the other thing I'll take a moment to correct is this sentiment that BMW controls everything; they do not, not even close. On the Z4? sure. The Supra however is under Toyotas discretion and does not suffer from some internal BMW superiority complex that prevents the Supra from being as good or even better depending on attribute. What did bother them is the Z4 essentially not even being in the same ballpark handling wise, and who can blame them for that? I'd want to ensure the car handled as well as possible too. That was also before they gave Tada the proper respect though too (they love him now).

One is a pure sports car that's fairly stripped down in ideal guise, and the other one is a luxury car designed for folks that probably wouldn't give the Supra the time of day all things considered (hence everyone on the bimmer forums saying it's a pile of mediocrity).

 

[Modal170]

Okay, so with this in mind...how much we talking if BMW or Toyota crafted this car by themselves? They are going to sell between 45-70k range but all this talk suggested they would have been GTR/NSX hunting and for the few badge whores at BMW, it wouldn't be purchased, even if it was better car than the rivals.

Cause badges push units

 

[Guff]

Wait I thought Toyota was buying the car from BMW? /s

Yes! That's why the Supra will come after the BMW! Toyota employees will rush to BMW dealerships and buy up all the Z4s and hastily drive them back to the Toyota dealerships, slap a hardtop on it, put it in reverse to roll back the mileage, and then sell them as new.

Genius plan, really. Industry first.

 

[Modal170]

Yes! That's why the Supra will come after the BMW! Toyota employees will rush to BMW dealerships and buy up all the Z4s and hastily drive them back to the Toyota dealerships, slap a hardtop on it, put it in reverse to roll back the mileage, and then sell them as new.

Genius plan, really. Industry first.

On that note, are you interested to see how the dealerships are going to pitch this car, run circles to convince people it isn't a Z4 or another BRZ86er?

 

[Guff]

On that note, are you interested to see how the dealerships are going to pitch this car, run circles to convince people it isn't a Z4 or another BRZ86er?

Oh yes, dealerships are going do some hilarious stuff in advertising and marketing this car, of that I have no doubt.

 

[PerformanceSound]

Wait I thought Toyota was buying the car from BMW? /s

What leads you to believe they did not?

I mean, let's be logical here and look at the facts so far right (again, based on visual evidence of the Goodwood car):

- BMW Engine, down to the throttle body and wiring.
- BMW brake calipers.
- BMW differential.
- BMW interior.
- BMW front & rear suspension.
- Built in Europe in the same factory as the X3 and pre-planned new Z4 (well before the Supra collaboration was a thought).

I am sure I'm forgetting or missing alot more BMW related stuff.

Now, one begs the question....what part(s) of this car are actually Toyota?..or what did BMW buy or take from Toyota in this "collaboration"? If anyone says "BMW got Toyota's hybrid system" then I hate to say it, but Toyota got shafted on the deal. I thought this car was a joint collaboration in that the two companies come up with one "foundational" platform (aka chassis), and each builds out their own drive-train, suspension, interior, etc... That is surely not the case, and we all clearly see this....so why is everyone fooling themselves? Why can't everyone just handle the truth, that the MKV Supra is a car Toyota is building out of a Z4 project that is clearly evident in almost every aspect of the MKV Supra. I would consider this car a Toyota if it had a Toyota drive-train, Toyota interior, Toyota brakes, etc... Curious how many parts on the new Z4 will say "Denso" or "Toyota" on them in this "joint effort."

 

[Modal170]

Performance, love your enthusiasm because you really want this car to be awesome and disappointed about the BMW collab despite being told how necessary it was but

though, I do want to see what Toyota will personally say to convince the public who is 99 percent done with the car as they think it is another 86BRZ for the Zupra.

 

[PerformanceSound]

Performance, love your enthusiasm because you really want this car to be awesome and disappointed about the BMW collab despite being told how necessary it was but

though, I do want to see what Toyota will personally say to convince the public who is 99 percent done with the car as they think it is another 86BRZ for the Zupra.

Hey man, I'm just responding to the folks who keep reiterating that "Toyota is making the MKV Supra a different car, unlike the 86/BRZ."

Sorry, but throwing a hardtop on doesn't classify it as a different car....it's just a different trim of the same model.

 

[Guff]

Hey man, I'm just responding to the folks who keep reiterating that "Toyota is making the MKV Supra a different car, unlike the 86/BRZ."

Sorry, but throwing a hardtop on doesn't classify it as a different car....it's just a different trim of the same model.

I think the majority of us agree. But again, we're just waiting on Toyota and/or BMW to tell us.

 

[GT-Four]

I don't think the Z4 would have existed if it hadn't been for Toyota.

The calipers I believe are brembos.

Alot of European built Toyotas share parts suppliers with brands likes BMW like for example Bosch instead of their regular Japanese suppliers.

Also just because a part reads BMW I don't think makes it a current bmw part. Maybe it was just easier in many ways and more cost effective for BMW to order the new parts from their current suppliers on behalf of Toyota hence the branding.

 

[PerformanceSound]

I don't think the Z4 would have existed if it hadn't been for Toyota.

The calipers I believe are brembos.

Alot of European built Toyotas share parts suppliers with brands likes BMW like for example Bosch instead of their regular Japanese suppliers.

Also just because a part reads BMW I don't think makes it a current bmw part. Maybe it was just easier in many ways and more cost effective for BMW to order the new parts from their current suppliers on behalf of Toyota hence the branding.

The calipers are Brembo for BMW....not Brembo for Toyota:

Correction: Prove me wrong when the MKV Supra comes out with Brembo's that have Toyota CASTED on them.

Sponsored