Featured Our LIVE 2020 Supra Coverage and Interviews From Detroit Auto Show!

Discussion in 'General Supra Topics' started by JT, Jan 14, 2019.

  1. Nurburgring

    Nurburgring Well-Known Member

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    "Front end design is a clamshell, which is great for working on the car, it`s a BMW motor so you`re going to be working on it" LOL!!!
    Loved that first look video Guff & team! Straight to the bone, no bullshit.
     
  2. SupraFiend

    SupraFiend Well-Known Member

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    Yup, 2 10s built in from the factory. Maybe they do know the average Supra owner well lol
     
  3. SupraFiend

    SupraFiend Well-Known Member

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    ...that or they had to cheat a little to get the weight balance to a perfect 50:50 at the very end lol
     
  4. Death666wish_

    Death666wish_ Well-Known Member

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    I am leaning more towards believing that as well, it seems like they just dropped the BMW engine as is, and whatever changes will be for the GRMN version, that's probably how they managed to keep the price low, well, low in America at least, everywhere else it's much more expensive. Very disappointing, My wishful thinking now is that the GRMN will look exactly the same aside from the active spoiler, just like how the NA and twin turbo were identical, but manufacturers now want to make the higher models more distinct so here's to hoping it looks better and not worse, I usually prefer the looks of the base cars over the higher end models.
     
  5. AsupramkvC

    AsupramkvC Well-Known Member

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    Question....how do you open the trunk/ bootlid?

    If you remove the engine cover, seems like it’s still messy :oops:
     
  6. Illsic_Design

    Illsic_Design Well-Known Member

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    If it is like other BMW's it will have a lever/switch for each at the bottom of the dash by the left kick panel.



    Yeah, will be messy, that's why there is a cover. Lots of wiring for sensors, injectors, coils, vacuum lines, and also a BIG plastic intake manifold with a heat exchanger/intercooler built into it, that's the ugliest part.
     
  7. Guff

    Guff Moderator
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    There's a button on the driver's door to pop the bootlid.


    Interview with Tada-San will be posted tomorrow morning. He was def on a bit of a tight leash but it was a good time talking with him. We didn't have much time with him, but @ichitaka05 graciously was our interviewer and having the interview in Japanese was fairly helpful. Nothing groundbreaking in the interview, but main points were Tada-San reinforcing that he was focused on reliability, and that Toyota intends on updating the car regularly as time goes on, and that those updated parts should be available to owners of first model year owners to upgrade their own car. He wasn't allowed to tell us if Toyota or GR had actual aftermarket parts in development, and he also couldn't tell us if Toyota was racing in GT300. Why is that question important? Well, it's because if the Supra was in GT300, then there's a possibility of Toyota using the B58 in racing, which so far has not been the case.

    Manual Transmission questions were very strictly off the table, which we gleaned from some earlier chats with Tada-San prior to the interview. We'll learn more as time goes on, and we're hoping to get a more technical interview with Tada-San in the future.
     
  8. BRX

    BRX Well-Known Member

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    I like this, but with the recent leak in that other thread about the GRMN getting M4 specs, not sure how one would upgrade his first model year's B58 to an S55...
     
  9. GT-Four

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    I don't think it's the current M4 engine. I think it will be the S58 that will be based on the B58. Maybe some parts will be interchangeable between the 2?
     
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  10. BRX

    BRX Well-Known Member

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    This makes the most sense, true. I was basing my assumption on the leak with 425hp and 406tq. I still don't see how one would upgrade to a new engine or how Toyota is involved with it since it's rumored the GRMN would be built at Motomachi and the S58 is purely a BMW engine shared across 4 other platforms.
     
  11. KahnBB6

    KahnBB6 Well-Known Member

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    #26 Jan 15, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2019
    I'm not a part of the auto industry but I do know how politics works in almost any major industry which has to balance public face with face between other companies with whom alliances, collaborations and/or competition exists.

    I imagine the pressure Tada-san is under in this regard is much more complicated than you're giving him credit for.

    Consider this: Toyota wasn't willing to 100% bankroll this car or its driveline due to the increasing R&D emphasis on their electric, hybrid, hydrogen and autonomous endeavors not to mention their bread and butter cars and because the inline-six turbo engine and vehicle platform would only be used for just the Supra... but they were willing to approve of a 50/50 collaboration with BMW to achieve the preferred I-6 driveline and unique vehicle platform.

    BMW isn't so sold on this at first because they do things very differently from the way Toyota does but have a unique approach and philosophy of their own. But after a while the two chief engineers and teams come to a working relationship to build two cars of mutual benefit with totally different missions and keeping within the budget. That last point is very key.

    Tada-san then starts doing things the way Toyota is famous for doing: analyzing and stress and durability testing the entire engine. Every component. The budget allowed not for radical modifications to make a totally different engine from the B58 but to take that as is and *refine* it as needed to meet Toyota's... not BMW's... standards.

    Now fast forward to yesterday. Tada-san sits in his chair at the Detroit Auto Show proudly and hopefully showing off one of his major life's creations that he's had to work very hard with balancing not just engineering decisions, passions, balance sheets, target customer analysis data and also the general public reaction... but also he's got to be careful politically to respect Toyota's CONTINUING working relationship with BMW so long as the A90 remains in production for... oh, I don't know... at least a decade or slightly more.

    And the car has JUST launched. The first cars haven't even been delivered and properly sold yet. There are trim levels, various tweak options and even a stupidly obvious transmission option that he would probably LIKE to discuss... but he cannot.

    And he especially cannot and will not publicly start arrogantly going on at length about all the critical refinements and little changes and improvements that Toyota had to make when tearing down the B58 engine to remove all the glaringly potentially problematic weak points inherent in BMW's engine as it was first delivered to his team to analyze. This might piss off not only BMW engineers but BMW brass. And that would piss off Toyota brass for having new tension to deal with.

    ...which could then harm not only the sales but the collaborative working relationship that keeps the A90 Supra supported and successful.

    He might like to go on about this at length but he won't because he wants to maintain a good working relationship with BMW and for the sake of the longevity of the A90. Toyota corporate feels the same way. It would not be good form to do this.

    ^^ And this is what I am sure we will hear at least some limited detail about in the interview. Maybe I'm wrong and he DOES goes into deep specifics about what B58 weak points were appalling to him and how he needed to spend two months just engineering better bearings or a better oil pump, etc. (note: bearings and an oil pump are just my random examples to make my point)

    I'm looking forward to hearing his answers tomorrow. But I am willing to bet part of the reason his hands are tied is because of trying to politically maintain a good ongoing working relationship between Toyota and BMW.

    Politics in companies and between companies in addition to the need to carefully handle a product launch are probably all at play here.

    ^^ If anything, this just tells me that Tada-san, Akio Toyoda, Toyota corporate and anyone involved with the A90 project know very well that there has been a tremendous interest in a manual Supra for a long time. And that they are probably going to address this but certainly not now when the car has just launched and as dealers are taking first model year orders.

    If I'm hotter rather than colder on this point then it also tells me that forces above Tada-san seriously misjudged the market by deciding not to offer a manual at launch.

    Why else would they not want to discuss the one vehicle option that they have been getting bombarded about ever since they first announced that the Supra would be automatic only and that they "weren't sure" about offering a manual because "Supra fans didn't appear to be that interested"?

    They're trying to avoid harming initial sales when they now realize that a sizable number of prospective owners in one of their biggest markets are cagey because they aren't offering a stick option.

    Either that... or it really is just going to be a GRMN-only option at $90k+ :/
     
  12. GT-Four

    GT-Four Well-Known Member

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    You know what, the way things have been going, I don't think Toyota will get the S58 engine at all. I think they will have to work with the B58 and extract more power out of it for the GRMN. That's probably where the parts sharing between the GR and the GRMN comes from. I feel like they probably got the B58 and only the B58 from day one and that was the only engine as part of the agreement
     
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  13. BRX

    BRX Well-Known Member

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    This is what I want to know. If we can get a confirmation the B58 will stick with the A90 forever or at least the next 5 years, I will book one at my dealership today. But if it gets a new powertrain in the next 2-3 years, I can gladly wait.

    I don't mind minor upgrades across model years as long as I can compensate either by OEM parts or aftermarket. I might actually prefer it as I quite enjoy working on my car.

    By the recent rumors from other members and how Toyota will probably not confirm this to not hurt sales, I'm leaning towards a new powertrain coming in the near future.
     
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  14. GT-Four

    GT-Four Well-Known Member

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    #29 Jan 15, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2019
    If Toyota is good at one thing, it's being very lazy in updating powertrains in their cars. I personally don't feel they will be in a rush to change this engine. They won't go through all that testing etc for a new engine that fast. My feeling tells me they will stick to this engine and possibly give it a boost in power for the GRMN at the same time the next official B58 update in power Comes So as to be on par with bmw. Around 400hp I assume.
     
  15. Australian of The North

    Australian of The North Well-Known Member

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    #30 Jan 15, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2019
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