Featured Our LIVE 2020 Supra Coverage and Interviews From Detroit Auto Show!

Discussion in 'General Supra Topics' started by JT, Jan 14, 2019.

  1. Jeff Lange

    Jeff Lange Well-Known Member

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    The new Z4 may go down as one of the most reliable BMW's. Or the Supra may go down as one of the least reliable Toyotas.

    The optimist in me hope for the first.

    Jeff
     
  2. SupraFiend

    SupraFiend Well-Known Member

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    You guys are really assuming a lot that Toyota had any sway whatsoever over that motor. It was predeveloped on other platforms and is shared across at least 4 models. I'm guessing all that stress testing and feedback all had to do with parts bespoke to the Supra\Z4 platform, and all the parts bin parts they just had to take at face value.
     
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  3. SupraFiend

    SupraFiend Well-Known Member

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    More likely it will be both lol
     
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  4. Jeff Lange

    Jeff Lange Well-Known Member

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    While that is true, if (and it's definitely an if) Toyota had a hand in any of the updates to the B58TU (which is being used in multiple platforms as you said), it's certainly possible that Toyota's involvement, if any, is already being used in those other models. Toyota and BMW started this partnership years ago.

    Jeff
     
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  5. MT6

    MT6 Active Member

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    I'd agree if Toyota has/had any significant role in the Z4/Supra project, but BMW is basically responsible for everything. Engineering, quality, supplier choice, production, testing, ... so Toyota will have little to no impact on anything.
     
  6. SupraFiend

    SupraFiend Well-Known Member

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    Yup, but the question is, did Toyota's practices and standards actually have any lasting impact on how BMW builds cars? Remember the interviews about development Tada san gave. The Germans scoffed at them when they took parts back to Japan and put them through the wringer and asked for changes. I'm not sure the German engineer ego was necessarily defeated here. On chassis and mechanical parts bespoke to this platform BMW would be forced to take Toyota's input, but to make changes to parts shared across their entire range they could easily tell them to stuff it.

    All I know is the 2000s was a horrible decade for BMW reliability. Maybe they have had some kind of massive cultural and philosophical change in how they do things and approach reliability in the 2010s, but I'm kinda doubting. Time will tell.
     
  7. MT6

    MT6 Active Member

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    You have to keep in mind that simply testing parts doesn't improve anything.
    Sure, Toyota might have checked thousands of BMW parts in Japan and sent their feedback back to Germany.

    That does't mean there were any improvements made by the lead developers (BMW). Engineers often ignore feedback when it doesn't make sense to them, and especially when it comes from a different company. :yes:
     
  8. GT-Four

    GT-Four Well-Known Member

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    Agreed completely. That's what I was trying to say as well which is why I don't think they will have another engine in the car. They have invested alot of time on this one.
     
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  9. GT-Four

    GT-Four Well-Known Member

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    Judging by the hp difference in the supra and Z4 I don't think Toyota had much of a hand in development of this engine. I don't think Toyota would have chosen to have 335hp over 382. Having more hp than the z4 is something else but not even having the same hp yet them being essentially twins has me wondering if maybe Toyota had no say whatsoever in the engine and had to run with rules BMW set?

    I'm also a bit confused with the 2 versions of the B58. Which does the supra and Z4 have? Which is the updated one and which is really the better one?
     
  10. MA617M

    MA617M Well-Known Member

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    They both have the B58B30M1 (one of the technical upgrades of the B58).

    Both feature the integrated exhaust manifold in the head.

    I don't think it was expected for the Z4 to surprise with 380hp.
     
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  11. MA617M

    MA617M Well-Known Member

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    Anyone who was at Detroit - can you comment on the metallic white?

    Is it a silver metallic/pearl within the white?

    Or gold?
     
  12. mkivalex

    mkivalex Well-Known Member

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    Ill be there on saturday and will give my feedback :)
     
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  13. supraz4

    supraz4 Member

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    As far as I've gathered, Z4/Supra engine isn't the same engine that BMW uses across their general 40i line up.
    Only other car that seems to be using this engine is upcoming G20 M340i which is also rated at 382hp.
    I want to believe that the B58 Supra is using has Toyota influence and regular B58 is pure BMW design. And BMW is going to replace old B58 with this new engine co-developed with Toyota. But it's only my speculation and nothing can be sure until the Supra is released to the public and someone does full engine tear-down comparison between Supra's B58 and older BMW's B58.
     
  14. Guff

    Guff Moderator
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    It looks pastel-ish when not in direct light, but sparkles nicely in direct light. Not super easy to tell in this photo, but I'll try to find one that shows it.

    Screen Shot 2019-01-15 at 8.26.08 PM.png
     
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  15. Guff

    Guff Moderator
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    Oh btw, we interviewed Tada-San very casually today again. No cameras, no mics, just @ichitaka05 and Tada-San chatting. We confirmed a couple cool details, including a BMW ECU/DME which was specifically chosen because people are already tuning on it. I'll write it up soon.
     

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