Petition Against The 'Supra' Badge

[PerformanceSound]

The RC-f is 4000lbs, 472hp V8, and costs $70k. The RC-F does 0-60 in 4.0sec. Very difficult and expensive to modify for not much power gains. Engine is not prepped for modifications.

The Subaru STI is 3400lbs, 315hp, F4T, and costs $38k. The STI does 0-60 in 4.5sec. Factory turbocharged so it’s easy and relatively cheap to modify for substantial power gains. Strong engine, although not fully forged from factory.

The MKV Supra is 3300lbs, 335hp I6T, and costs $50k. The MKV does 0-60 in 4.1sec. Factory turbocharged so should be very easy and not very expensive to modify for substantial power gains. Closed deck engine is fully forged from the factory.

It’s pretty clear why Toyota worked with BMW and Subaru on building sports car. Say “why didn’t they use a Lexus engine” again....I dare you .

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[123vasakate6]

Because rookie CEO blindly aimed for (was expensive in 1996) affordability by cutting back on design, engineering, testing and facility costs by slapping their most modernly anticipated legendary badge on the end of a dead production line to fool _______.

A CEO born into the family business and employed at Toyota since 1984 is considered a rookie..I guess Akio, Harald Krüger (2015) and Herbert Diess (2018) are all rookies hoping to get lucky with their lemonade stands/car companies.

 

[Supra21]

Last time I checked, we were discussing the car and it's possibilities ...not solely focusing on reasons why it shouldn't be what it is before it has even hit roads...let alone, showrooms!
But, you know... ... ...

Hey, wait a minute! Maybe they can continue researching for us!

 

[Bryster]

Because rookie CEO blindly aimed for (was expensive in 1996) affordability by cutting back on design, engineering, testing and facility costs by slapping their most modernly anticipated legendary badge on the end of a dead production line to fool _______.

Stop saying Rookie CEO like he wasn't groomed for the position

 

[Supra21]

Stop saying Rookie CEO like he wasn't groomed for the position

Right?! Clearly...the expert here was groomed for it and knows best!

 

[Supra21]

Can't say the market for a FT1 isn't here... but the fact that Lexus already had 2 options made timing bad. But the reason why Toyota had pulled this stunt remains a little questionable.

Aside from name calling you got to understand that the sports car industry is risky business. Mr. Toyoda either must not have had the funds or was not sure of the current market for a new Supra and seen a very easy opportunity with BMW for testing waters while generating money and knowledge while doing so.

The GTR production documentary reflects on how risky the sports car production is, and sheds a great light on what kind of pressure Toyota's CEO was facing while looking in to the FT1 alone.

On a positive side that reflects the Lotus and Yamaha co-design history would be the fact that Toyota has all of BMW's 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder designs blueprinted and their failure points already noted. BMW currently has a very interesting valvetrain that Toyota can possibly simplify for example, not to mention BMW is one of few manufactures left who produces a inline 6. The MK5 could very much be the mule by design and for funding a very a intense MK6, given the paychecks received by BMW for igniting a very used production line. I'm sure they are seeing the online uproar as well. I can see Toyota parting ways with BMW immediately after both manufactures have learned a lot from each other and have gained financially.

Lotus for example has given Toyota for the wishbone suspension design of the MKI and MKII, which had been passed on all the way to the MKIV.

It's valid to hope that lessons learned from this partnership may yield an intense MKVI; however, as the sports car scene evolves, so do emission regulations...which are already quite strict and have put a tight strain on the development of enjoyable cars. We can hope for an intense 6th gen, but the days of all motor cars are getting shorter!

 

[Supra21]

This is the only thing I could find. Also, very tempting.
https://arsenalmotorsports.com/products/bmw-b58-s-1000.html

B58 has proven to be quite solid thus far!

https://www.wardsauto.com/engines/highly-awarded-bmw-i-6-remains-close-perfection

 

[justbake]

I'm sure they are seeing the online uproar as well. I can see Toyota parting ways with BMW immediately after both manufactures have learned a lot from each other and have gained financially.

I don’t know how you haven’t been banned for trolling, the z4/a90 project is just a tiny part of their partnership but then again you’ve shown you know actually nothing about BMWs several times

 

[Bryster]

It's valid to hope that lessons learned from this partnership may yield an intense MKVI; however, as the sports car scene evolves, so do emission regulations...which are already quite strict and have put a tight strain on the development of enjoyable cars. We can hope for an intense 6th gen, but the days of all motor cars are getting shorter!

MK6/A100 may very well be a PHEV

 

[Supra21]

I don’t know how you haven’t been banned for trolling, the z4/a90 project is just a tiny part of their partnership but then again you’ve shown you know actually nothing about BMWs several times

Entertainment lol

 

[Bryster]

Is this the new "What i don't like about the MKV?"

 

[Goose]

Is this the new "What i don't like about the MKV?"

Yes, apparently. Seems like many people want to complain about a car which isn't even out. Despite being on a forum for said car.

 

[Supra21]

Yes, apparently. Seems like many people want to complain about a car which isn't even out. Despite being on a forum for said car.

Agreed! In the midst of my defending the car, our so called expert who's so against the A90 was like don't "@" me when I called him or her out on empty research lol...ladies and gentlemen, we've regressed to high school

 

[BRX]

I just want to add my .02 regarding Toyota's open deck engines. From hands on experience, Toyota's open deck engines can handle a good amount of boost just fine. My open deck, stock sleeve with 0.015 over bore 3UR can hold up to 30 psi and I'm pretty sure the 2UR can handle as much if not more being more performance oriented. I'm guessing the V35A with factory turbos is just as stout. These engines however wouldn't be my first choice either for a tuner friendly sports car. They simply lack one of the following:

- Forged internals
- Low compression
- Tunability

I have been in the Tundra scene since 2010 and to this date I haven't seen any issues with the cylinder sleeves under boost. They almost always break a connecting rod or a piston under boost, but never a cracked sleeve. Replace the internals with forged ones and you're good to 17-18 psi on pump gas and +25 psi on E85 even with the OEM head bolts.

The 2UR has both forged pistons and rods but very high compression making it extremely not tuner friendly.

The V35A would have been a perfect candidate for the Supra. Forged internals? check. Low compression? check. But I can see how the B58 would have been preferred over it for obvious reasons (Shared BMW platform, inline 6, closed deck, etc.) and it's relatively a better tuner platform than a Lexus V6 with all it's complexity.

Not to mention all the Toyota/Lexus platforms I just mentioned do not like their ECUs to be accessed. A Denso ECU in the Supra would have been cracked almost immediately (due to it's aftermarket reputation) compromising all other Toyota ECUs. Don't get me wrong, I know some shady companies have already done that but all their solutions can't access all the maps not to mention their interface and support are terrible.

In the end I would have 110% bought this car if it had a V35A or a variant of it but that's never going to happen. So I'll just settle for the B58. And maybe if history repeats itself and I blew this engine up some years down the road I'll swap it out for a V35A with a manual just like I did my 86.

 

[Australian of The North]

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