Race Tracking Your Supra - Information exchange

[Traxion]

Question for those that visit several tracks during the season: Does the skill transfer from track to track seamlessly or do you ride with someone, have a coach on board for a new track?

Seamlessly no but you'll start recognizing 'Hey this corner is similar to this other one from the other track' and you'll have a better baseline to build up from. You'll also end up building up to a solid minimum confidence in the car and your own skill. For example even if you over slow for corner entry because you're new there, you'll know how much throttle to give to track out properly regardless. Easy example is once you know your car can stop on a main straight from 140 down to 50 by braking at the 400ft marker (made up numbers but close), that carries to every single track with minor variances.

At the TT level there's generally not much opportunity to have someone ride along and it's up to you to dive into the deep end and know how to make adjustments on your own. A home simulator setup even if its cheap can at least help with remembering all the turns and picking initial brake points.

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[FLtrackdays]

That sounds like a dream season!

Question for those that visit several tracks during the season: Does the skill transfer from track to track seamlessly or do you ride with someone, have a coach on board for a new track?

I am still very green, but noticed I was just a tiny bit more comfortable in Sebring on my first laps than what I felt at Homestead on my first 2 or 3 weekends.

Yup ? Ride along. Unless you’re on a desert track where everything is/has runoff. Sebring you gotta be careful because there are more walls to hit than Homestead.

But back to your point, an extreme example, a friend set a track record his 1st time at PBIR (this is going back) and he was only out there a few laps giving me a baseline (lap time) in my car. No SIM practice available either. As far as regular peeps like us who don’t do it for a living… you get a feel for what the car can or can’t do. And it will become 2nd nature with LOTS of practice. Always go slow and build speed. Never try dumb shit w/out an escape route or runoff. Stuff like that.

I’d recommend someone with you at a new track until it truly is 2nd nature. Get Pablo to go with you!!!!! What a great resource he would be ? I had someone with me for one session at Road Atlanta my 1st time and glad I did. That bridge eats cars if you don’t know how to handle that blind, almost airborne moment then back down again, downhill, followed by a banking right turn. The dude that used to run Chin asked everyone at the meeting how many people wrecked under that bridge and it was shocking how many people raised their hands.

 

[i3igpete]

Does running a larger cat like AMS or AA Gesi downpipe help with under hood and/ or intake temps?

Cats are, by definition, an exothermic reaction. so yes, a less efficient cat would have less radiant heat. Catless would help more since there is no reaction.

 

[RedSupra]

in the NE, BMW/Audi NEQ offers the best bang for buck for novices. once you move up in track awareness/fundamentals, moving to masstuning/scda can be better if more track to yourself becomes your priority. instructor qualities are not even between groups either.

Thanks. NEQ seems a bit less expensive at Watkins Glen then others.

You don’t actually register, you just click the button which brings you to the registration page which has the pricing listed.

Yeah I just see prices for camping for the Watkins Glen 4th of July event. I don't see the hpde prices. Maybe they are sold out but it does not say? I see prices for other events so I don't know.

 

[Islindur]

Rear brakes:
Are there any kits recommended for the rear? Except AP Radicals?
Or just do a slotted rotor and leave it... Was just looking at the GT4 and they run 4 piston rears.

sum1 correct me but i think rears Are 2 pistons floating calipers right?

 

[razorlab]

Yeah I just see prices for camping for the Watkins Glen 4th of July event. I don't see the hpde prices. Maybe they are sold out but it does not say? I see prices for other events so I don't know.

It's literally where I said it was:

 

[razorlab]

sum1 correct me but i think rears Are 2 pistons floating calipers right?

Rears are single.

 

[FLtrackdays]

Rear brakes:
Are there any kits recommended for the rear? Except AP Radicals?
Or just do a slotted rotor and leave it... Was just looking at the GT4 and they run 4 piston rears.

sum1 correct me but i think rears Are 2 pistons floating calipers right?

I doubt you’ll find you need any extra bite in the rear. Unless you’re doing more threshold (straight line) braking over trail braking.

 

[PaulFRDE]

I doubt you’ll find you need any extra bite in the rear. Unless you’re doing more threshold (straight line) braking over trail braking.

I agree but there could be 2 possibilities:
1-Driving on track with ESP activated is very tough on rear brakes.
2-Stock caliper the inner pads seems to get much hotter than outer pads, but I guess removing the heatshield should be more efficient than changing the caliper...

 

[Islindur]

Well, GT4 uses way more brake back, AP recommends f+r so i guess there is benefit to have in terms of braking thats why I'm wondering... AP for now is not optimal for me since i use the csr in cold months too so i was looking at other options.

 

[licklobster]

Rear brakes:
Are there any kits recommended for the rear? Except AP Radicals?
Or just do a slotted rotor and leave it... Was just looking at the GT4 and they run 4 piston rears.

sum1 correct me but i think rears Are 2 pistons floating calipers right?

it has a slider, it's a single.

 

[Exotic Papa]

Well this was a 1st for any car I’ve owned…

Corded the inside left (driver’s side) tire. Granted I did a lot more in town driving than I usually do and busted an end link while driving at Sebring (turn 17). A button screw (they called it something else) came off on track.

Luckily a friend had extra parts (lug nut & spacers) in his truck and we matched up the thread size and pitch. Had to take the other side apart to do it ofc. Anyway, that has now been fixed. Verkline sent me the parts from across the ocean (took 4 ever). It was odd because the part came preassembled. So we asked them if they had a service bulletin or to start one.

Regardless noticed my tire yesterday when they were installing the replacement parts from Verkline ?. I’ve never corded on the inside. My camber is approximately -3.6 up front and we put some toe out, which I like. I had to emergency counter steer (scrub) under hard braking while slowing her down entering the turn. She was forced to go straight from 145 mph with that tire not being able to move until about 50 mph. I finally got enough small turns in to make it off track to the pit out (happens to be right there off turn 17 at Sebring).

I believe I did about 5-6 track days on those tires, 2 other weekends. I knew this would be the last 3 days (weekend) on them and brought my backup set. I did get a full day Friday before this happened. It was an all you can eat (drive) buffet style track day, so I did put in a LOT of time. But I’m having a hard time believing this happened from that end of day incident.

Any ideas or thoughts on to why I corded on the inside? I didn’t get a chance to talk to the head mechanic yesterday when I picked up the car. I’m thinking it couldn’t be too much negative camber. I know Guthrie, Bob, Bryan and many other peeps runs with just as much or more neg camber than I do and drive just as hard (fast) or harder w/out cording there 1st. I’ve always corded on the outside 1st when looking for tire wear. In fact I was really happy to see (or think) they were wearing much better, lol. I’ve got replacement tires but now it’s getting a bit late for me to go back out ?. I might do a day with Chin just to try out the new seat again in a few weeks. My times were off that day and something felt off. I should have known just to throw in the towel and check under the car sooner. Hindsight is always 20/20.

If anyone else needs the entire Verkline catalog diagrams for our Supra, see below for what they sent me. The Stateside company is a middleman for the main company over in Europe.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1bEiiArbMPhojfa_vtYBemcDk9GCau7bb

I‘ve got all their parts except the bushings and subframe, been happy otherwise ?. I’m currently working with them figuring out why this preassembled part came undone. Will let y’all know what we find out and/or hopefully a service bulletin will follow.

Hola Mark,

I'm about to get my suspension, I have (but have not installed) the Verkline front caster control arm, FLCA, and rear toe links. Is the front tie rod (I'm scared from looking at your pic) and rear traction links really really necessary? Will be abusing these parts at Sebring as you already know lol.

 

[Melchior]

Well this was a 1st for any car I’ve owned…

Corded the inside left (driver’s side) tire. Granted I did a lot more in town driving than I usually do and busted an end link while driving at Sebring (turn 17). A button screw (they called it something else) came off on track.

Luckily a friend had extra parts (lug nut & spacers) in his truck and we matched up the thread size and pitch. Had to take the other side apart to do it ofc. Anyway, that has now been fixed. Verkline sent me the parts from across the ocean (took 4 ever). It was odd because the part came preassembled. So we asked them if they had a service bulletin or to start one.

Regardless noticed my tire yesterday when they were installing the replacement parts from Verkline ?. I’ve never corded on the inside. My camber is approximately -3.6 up front and we put some toe out, which I like. I had to emergency counter steer (scrub) under hard braking while slowing her down entering the turn. She was forced to go straight from 145 mph with that tire not being able to move until about 50 mph. I finally got enough small turns in to make it off track to the pit out (happens to be right there off turn 17 at Sebring).

I believe I did about 5-6 track days on those tires, 2 other weekends. I knew this would be the last 3 days (weekend) on them and brought my backup set. I did get a full day Friday before this happened. It was an all you can eat (drive) buffet style track day, so I did put in a LOT of time. But I’m having a hard time believing this happened from that end of day incident.

Any ideas or thoughts on to why I corded on the inside? I didn’t get a chance to talk to the head mechanic yesterday when I picked up the car. I’m thinking it couldn’t be too much negative camber. I know Guthrie, Bob, Bryan and many other peeps runs with just as much or more neg camber than I do and drive just as hard (fast) or harder w/out cording there 1st. I’ve always corded on the outside 1st when looking for tire wear. In fact I was really happy to see (or think) they were wearing much better, lol. I’ve got replacement tires but now it’s getting a bit late for me to go back out ?. I might do a day with Chin just to try out the new seat again in a few weeks. My times were off that day and something felt off. I should have known just to throw in the towel and check under the car sooner. Hindsight is always 20/20.

If anyone else needs the entire Verkline catalog diagrams for our Supra, see below for what they sent me. The Stateside company is a middleman for the main company over in Europe.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1bEiiArbMPhojfa_vtYBemcDk9GCau7bb

I‘ve got all their parts except the bushings and subframe, been happy otherwise ?. I’m currently working with them figuring out why this preassembled part came undone. Will let y’all know what we find out and/or hopefully a service bulletin will follow.

A few things jump out at me, how much front tore out and how many street miles? Toe out on the street will put a lot of wear on the inside edges in a very focused area like that.

Additionally, when you had the tie rod issue at the track, one side getting loose on track could have lead to further excessive edge wear. Did you check and reset rod after that happened? That could have lead to even more toe out.

Do you rotate tires front to back? I’ve seen inside edge wear from excessive wheel spin on corner exit (or just having fun).

This tore looks to be under inflated. This will put excessive load onto the inside and outside edges. Combined with lots of front toe out putting a lot of load onto the inside edges. Do you reset tire pressures before driving home? They could be decent pressures on track then cool down quickly on the street, even if it’s just a few miles.

I think this and too many street miles with too much toe out is the leading candidate, depending on some of the other answers.

 

[FLtrackdays]

Hola Mark,

I'm about to get my suspension, I have (but have not installed) the Verkline front caster control arm, FLCA, and rear toe links. Is the front tie rod (I'm scared from looking at your pic) and rear traction links really really necessary? Will be abusing these parts at Sebring as you already know lol.

They’re not really really necessary. But are helpful for getting better geometry and articulation.

The rear traction links will help get rid of variable toe changes, wheel hop, stability when cornering, and traction under acceleration. The OEM ones flex more. Especially under hard braking in turn 17. Some people claim better weight transfer, anti-squat as well. But I didn’t really notice the latter part and I’m running stock power.
Front tie rods will definitely improve bump steer correction. Needed for a really good, more precise, alignment imo. If you have sway bars it can help remove preload as well.

Hate to say it but since you’ve gone this far, I’d do it. After all, I did ?. You have really good lap times. You can always do a before and after lap timing test for all of us and give us the verdict ?

A few things jump out at me, how much front tore out and how many street miles? Toe out on the street will put a lot of wear on the inside edges in a very focused area like that.

Additionally, when you had the tie rod issue at the track, one side getting loose on track could have lead to further excessive edge wear. Did you check and reset rod after that happened? That could have lead to even more toe out.

Do you rotate tires front to back? I’ve seen inside edge wear from excessive wheel spin on corner exit (or just having fun).

This tore looks to be under inflated. This will put excessive load onto the inside and outside edges. Combined with lots of front toe out putting a lot of load onto the inside edges. Do you reset tire pressures before driving home? They could be decent pressures on track then cool down quickly on the street, even if it’s just a few miles.

I think this and too many street miles with too much toe out is the leading candidate, depending on some of the other answers.

Great points!!!!! I bet you’re right on many of those accounts. I could feel she was a bit off before that bolt snapped/broke off. To make matters worse, I haven’t kept a log of which tires I’ve rotated, swapped out and the time spent on track vs town. Even though my in town driving is minimal, you’re absolutely right. I’ll start doing exactly that next season and start on fresh tires. Thanks Mark (great name btw)!

 

[Melchior]

Great points!!!!! I bet you’re right on many of those accounts. I could feel she was a bit off before that bolt snapped/broke off. To make matters worse, I haven’t kept a log of which tires I’ve rotated, swapped out and the time spent on track vs town. Even though my in town driving is minimal, you’re absolutely right. I’ll start doing exactly that next season and start on fresh tires. Thanks Mark (great name btw)!

No problem, happy to help. Especially a fellow Mark!

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