Race Tracking Your Supra - Information exchange

[Subydude]

Thanks for that feedback. On the steering, I tend to set the wheel as I turn in and then unwind after the apex. Maybe I am turning too early, or too sharp and angle for the speed. I do tend to get some rotation on the longer turns. Going to spend some time to (over) analyze myself on the steering!

I will set toe to zero and fit 255s next time!

Something I've found super helpful is putting a gopro somewhere that I can see my inputs as well as the track. I've gotten lazy and been using a garmin catalyst and realized that it's great for analysis of the lap, but not what I was doing during the lap. Get some video of you steering and see if it's pushing without you changing the angle on the wheel. That would be the culprit (if so).

I can say that most corners generally require constant small corrections to keep the tire happy and if you're just setting your angle until after apex you could probably gain some time (and better tire wear) through practice.

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[i3igpete]

Mid turn, if the car is pushing, you want to unwind instead of adding more steering as that additional angle tends to just grind the tire away.

Visual diagram of what you're describing. @initialDnut: Less angle, more weight transfer forward by lifting slightly or left foot braking (if you're gentle).

This video describes how you should keep asking your tires where they are on the curve.

 

[razorlab]

@initialDnut

Those aren't even close to being shot. Look like normal wear to me. You could use more camber though. At least -3.5 for track use.

What "cracks" are you referencing?

Those look like my day 1 RE71RS's. I heat cycle out RE71RS way before any cords start showing.

 

[initialDnut]

Post an in car video showing your hands on the wheel. Sometimes what you think youre doing vs actually seeing what youre doing are two different things. Nothing wrong with that. I stick a pedal camera in some students cars to show them they aren't heel toeing even though they swear they are.

I need to get a camera! - Great tip!

 

[initialDnut]

@initialDnut

Those aren't even close to being shot. Look like normal wear to me. You could use more camber though. At least -3.5 for track use.

What "cracks" are you referencing?

Those look like my day 1 RE71RS's. I heat cycle out RE71RS way before any cords start showing.

The main part of the tire is fine, it is the sidewalls that I believe are in bad shape - or you think I can get a lot more heat cycels out of them? I have two days at Pocono in a couple of weeks and need to drive home on them. (last year i drove home with thread visible).

 

[Evolution]

Mine look the same. Normal RE71 stuff. Keep on driving and get some camber in that thing.

 

[Subydude]

The sidewall is the part where the lettering is, and that's fine. You're talking about the shoulder. The wear there isn't great, but it'll last at least another day if you're monitoring it.

I wouldn't say you have a ton more heat cycles left, but you've got some. I haven't cycled out 71RS, but I have worn them to the cords and as long as there isn't metal belt showing you're "good" for that drive home.

 

[razorlab]

The main part of the tire is fine, it is the sidewalls that I believe are in bad shape - or you think I can get a lot more heat cycels out of them? I have two days at Pocono in a couple of weeks and need to drive home on them. (last year i drove home with thread visible).

Absolutely fine, put the ones you are concerned about on the rear, but there is still meat there.

If they are one day old, you have many more heat cycles in them as well. I usually get about 4.5 days on them before they heat cycle out.

Are you at Pocono with SCDA this weekend? I'll be there.

Compare the depth of yours with mine on 4th day:

 

[initialDnut]

The sidewall is the part where the lettering is, and that's fine. You're talking about the shoulder. The wear there isn't great, but it'll last at least another day if you're monitoring it.

I wouldn't say you have a ton more heat cycles left, but you've got some. I haven't cycled out 71RS, but I have worn them to the cords and as long as there isn't metal belt showing you're "good" for that drive home.

Thanks! I have much to learn, even on tire anatomy!

 

[initialDnut]

Absolutely fine, put the ones you are concerned about on the rear, but there is still meat there.

If they are one day old, you have many more heat cycles in them as well. I usually get about 4.5 days on them before they heat cycle out.

Are you at Pocono with SCDA this weekend? I'll be there.

Compare the depth of yours with mine on 4th day:

I am going in a couple of weeks with PCA RTR - but SCDA event looks better - I would love to hear how the long track in reverse is like!

 

[razorlab]

I am going in a couple of weeks with PCA RTR - but SCDA event looks better - I would love to hear how the long track in reverse is like!

Yea, the *real* 3.51 mile mega course is great. Here is some video of mine from last year:

 

[94boosted]

I went with a set of Nexen N'fera Sport R's for this season and must say I'm not overly impressed. In Grassroots testing they're apparently marginally quicker than a V730 and are meant to wear more like an enduro 200 vs. a super 200, but mine started to chunk after 3.5 track days . I've got 2 track days left so I'll likely need to get a new pair of fronts.

For reference I run a 9.5F/10.5R with a 255/275 setup. I was only able to get -2.8° of camber before the spring made contact with the strut tower. MSS HAS springs and Verus camber plates, but I do also have the OEM Camber Correction Swivel Bearings from my autocross days, so I'm wondering if that was part of my issue .

 

[UYCR]

Yea, the *real* 3.51 mile mega course is great. Here is some video of mine from last year:

This looks way more fun than the tiny course they had when I went for the free track day. Been so caught up with work that I didn't even realize there was an event this weekend.

 

[FLtrackdays]

I need some informed advice!

I keep going through my front tires way too quickly. Here are a picture of a set on RE71RS fronts that were brand new before my last track weekend (3 days at Watkins Glen 11 heat cycles 20/25 min per sessions). I think they are already shot because of the sidewalls.

Set up:
- I ran 265 on oem wheels.
- They were heat cycled by TireRack when I got them fitted.
- I would take about 2 laps to warm them up each outing
- I have -3.0' camber and total toe in of 0.19
-I used to run 32psi hot, but went to 35 psi this time (as I thought my issues may be under inflation related.

What can be causing this?

- not enough camber?
- Too much Toe in? Is this scrubbing tires and I should change to 0 toe?
- wrong pressure
- Driving too hard? I drive hard, but try to be smooth -instructors have never called me out on being a hooligan
- Not taking enough time to warm up tires (hence cracks)?
-Driver needs to shed a few pounds?

That looks like a combo of not enough camber and turning the wheel too far. Likely more turning the wheel too far since that's what produces that type of shoulder wear at that camber level.

Mid turn, if the car is pushing, you want to unwind instead of adding more steering as that additional angle tends to just grind the tire away.

A 265 on a 9" wheel is a bit of a stuff as well, so you would want the higher pressure to prevent roll over. The 71RS, like most 200tw tires, likes a bit of a stretch. If you go back to it, I might go to the oem size of 255 and then play with pressure. As the tire is better supported you can go down a bit on pressure, but if it's pinched you want to go up to keep it stable.

Over all, you likely want to get rid of the front toe in and run around zero toe (toe isn't what's killing this though). A quick reset via toe plates should help that. Then I'd see about running 35-37 hot on that set until cords are showing. Try to focus on not turning the wheel more after the car stops turning more. The trick is getting the tires squealing, not squalling. Then see how the wear looks and if you need more front camber.

Great advice Tim. Though I haven’t been out in a while, getting the rear to rotate easier with suspension setup & more toe out for shaper & quicker turn in helped for me. Smoother & quicker trail braking when rolling from brake to throttle will also be easier to manage. A friend had a camera for his feet. I’ll have to find the video. It was cool as sheeeeiiitttttt watching him teach others how use all three pedals more smoothly.

Bit off topic, consider hiring a real coach (outside of HPDE). It’s less expensive than you’d think if they‘re already at the track you go to. The smoother you drive and better habits you learn will pay dividends later on. They will also give you way better suggestions for setup after driving your car and seeing what you‘re doing.

 

[Davo307]

Great advice Tim. Though I haven’t been out in a while, getting the rear to rotate easier with suspension setup & more toe out for shaper & quicker turn in helped for me. Smoother & quicker trail braking when rolling from brake to throttle will also be easier to manage. A friend had a camera for his feet. I’ll have to find the video. It was cool as sheeeeiiitttttt watching him teach others how use all three pedals more smoothly.

Bit off topic, consider hiring a real coach (outside of HPDE). It’s less expensive than you’d think if they‘re already at the track you go to. The smoother you drive and better habits you learn will pay dividends later on. They will also give you way better suggestions for setup after driving your car and seeing what you‘re doing.

Like this video? Old one but you get the gist.



Im always available to coach people. Whether it be at the track (preferably Florida area but I do travel) or virtually with video and data. Im a nerd for data and wanting to go faster lol

Couldn't agree more. The better foundation you create for your driving now will pay massive dividends later on if you plan on sticking with tracking.

I cant tell you how many guys I drive against with 2x, 3x the horsepower who are slower than me in my s2000 with 240whp. All because they never learned the basics and instead just threw horsepower at their lap times.

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