Spied: Toyota benchmarking Porsche 911 GT3 RS (997) for new Supra?

[Mike]

Its is clear that they are benchmarking the Supra against the 718 Cayman.
Similarly the GT-R was developed to go head to head with the 997 911 Turbo back in 2008. And it did. Overtaking it by a small fraction.
The same will probably happen here. Also the fact that rumors are suggesting two powertrains, expect the 4-cylinder model to have similar specs to the basic 718 Cayman, and the other 6-cylinder model as the Cayman S.
I believe the Supra won't come out as GR branded but as Toyota, with a GRMN version later on based on the high-spec model with suspension, brake, interior, power upgrades to compete the Cayman GTS philosophy.

Sponsored

 

[2JZ-No-Sh*t]

^The 6 cylinder version for North America is reported to be even higher than the GTS at 385hp.

 

[DevonK]

This is claim substantiated by the cars Tomoyama and his team have benchmarked the new Supra against: the BMW M3/M4 and the Porsche 911.

Well at least that's something.

Meh. Wrong benchmarks - these are (relatively speaking) big, heavy luxury GTs these days. Much better benchmark choices would have been the M2 and Cayman - along with the Alfa 4C for the ultimate in road feel and nimble handling.

Maybe that is part of the reason the CEO had them go back to the drawing board to liven up the handling - the wrong benchmarks were used.

 

[A70TTR]

I've said it before, but the top spec test mule does 0-60mph in ~4sec and outlapped the top spec Z4 by a full 10sec on Spa, so I really dont think there is much to worry about lol

As far as specs go, the 718 Cayman GTS is very similar to the SPX in many facets (lap times, 0-60, curb weight, power, etc).

 

[Craigy]

Meh. Wrong benchmarks - these are (relatively speaking) big, heavy luxury GTs these days. Much better benchmark choices would have been the M2 and Cayman - along with the Alfa 4C for the ultimate in road feel and nimble handling.

Maybe that is part of the reason the CEO had them go back to the drawing board to liven up the handling - the wrong benchmarks were used.

The 911 is one of the lightest true sportscar offerings on the market. And the M2 is literally only about 80lbs lighter than an M4.

Yeah you could buy a 4C or a Miata but neither of those cars are what the Supra ethos is about.

 

[Craigy]

I've said it before, but the top spec test mule does 0-60mph in ~4sec and outlapped the top spec Z4 by a full 10sec on Spa, so I really dont think there is much to worry about lol

As far as specs go, the 718 Cayman GTS is very similar to the SPX in many facets (lap times, 0-60, curb weight, power, etc).

I'd prefer Carrera S to Cayman GTS, but I suppose those numbers wouldn't be half bad.

Only thing, by the time a real Supra sees the showroom, a base Cayman will probably offer the same performance for less money.

 

[MA617M]

I've said it before, but the top spec test mule does 0-60mph in ~4sec and outlapped the top spec Z4 by a full 10sec on Spa, so I really dont think there is much to worry about lol

As far as specs go, the 718 Cayman GTS is very similar to the SPX in many facets (lap times, 0-60, curb weight, power, etc).

Hopefully low 4s

But nevertheless, looking at Nurburgring lap times a few seconds less of the Cayman GT4 (7:38 range) is in pretty serious company.

 

[DevonK]

The 911 is one of the lightest true sportscar offerings on the market. And the M2 is literally only about 80lbs lighter than an M4.

Yeah you could buy a 4C or a Miata but neither of those cars are what the Supra ethos is about.

Nearly all of the big shootouts/COTYs find the Cayman has better handling characteristics than the 911, and the same holds for the M2 to M4 comparison - so why not use the higher benchmark? Plus the Supra appears to be more in the size, weight and price class of these cars than that of the 911 or M4.

Regardless of the benchmarks that were used, the fact that the CEO did not like the handling of the prototype and wants it to be significantly livelier is in a way encouraging to those looking for state of the art sportscar agility and responsiveness in the Supra.

I may be in the minority here about this, but whether or not the MkV gets to 60 in the low fours or the high fours will be a far less important determinant of the car's "fun to drive" quotient for me than its handling and driving feel.

 

[tfoxyr]

I've said it before, but the top spec test mule does 0-60mph in ~4sec and outlapped the top spec Z4 by a full 10sec on Spa, so I really dont think there is much to worry about lol

As far as specs go, the 718 Cayman GTS is very similar to the SPX in many facets (lap times, 0-60, curb weight, power, etc).

Cayman GTS : 365hp , 0-62 =4.6 for manual , 4.3 for aut , 1375 kg
Cayman GT4 : 385hp , 0-62 =4.4 for manual ( no aut ) , 1315 kg
911 Carrera S : 420hp , 0-62=4.3 for manual , 4.1 for aut , 1460 kg

I know they are just specs and experience on the road is not only pereceived by numbers, but because numbers is the most we can have atm i believe spx is closer to 911 carrera s for 0-62 times , closer to GT4 in power and closer to cayman GTS for weight . My guesses are based on bmw B58 performance , for example a 2 series with B58 engine has 340hp , is 1565 kg and its 0-62 times is 4.6 sec .

I am curious though about 1 other thing , the 4 cylinder model would target perormance wise the 718 cayman ( 300hp)?

 

[johnny_10196]

The Toyota and BMW testing along side of what appears to be a 911.

 

[DevonK]

It's interesting that we have been seeing a fair number of shots of the BMW and Toyota being tested together, which hints that there is perhaps more coordination and collaboration between the two in developing the ride and handling characteristics of the platform than they might like to admit publicly. Of course it could be only engine/drivetrain testing they are working together on, time will tell.

 

[MA617M]

That's a 718 Cayman

 

[Prius_F_Sport]

???
That doesn't look like a Cayman, the headlights are different...
Though it looks like an early 2010s-era 911 Turbo, not a previous-gen GT3 RS. Funny.
Or maybe I just suck at Porsche history.

 

[Spilner]

Older article, but it says it will be about the size of a 911.



http://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/2018-toyota-supra-performance-news-specs/

I KNEW IT!!

 

[MA617M]

The Toyota and BMW testing along side of what appears to be a 911.

???
That doesn't look like a Cayman, the headlights are different...
Though it looks like an early 2010s-era 911 Turbo, not a previous-gen GT3 RS. Funny.
Or maybe I just suck at Porsche history.

this is the one i am referring to. 100% a 718 cayman

Sponsored