Supra vs C8 Corvette

Which would you rather have


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Z8AKU

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I don't know where you're getting the boost pressure numbers, but that's fine because you're absolutely right in terms of compression/boost/power. Just want to see if you still think the dyno chart is flawed.
Well I have boost readings from my car through data logs and different maps and I have read through various sites that the 2021 model has increased boost pressure over the A90 models as well as a different turbo. Have no idea if the dyno run here is flawed. It's one dyno run and none of us have anything else to compare this dyno with. 1/4 mile times are much better and determining torque based off ET., 60 ft and trap speeds than any dynometer.




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Z8AKU

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I get it, youre proud of your car. But no one is going to think less of you as a person or man to admit you're wrong, misinformed, or made a misjudgment.
I get it, you don't have a car or a Supra but people will think less of you when you post out of your ass parroting the car and driver articles you keep reading. How many personal A90 Supras have you data logged? How many A90's have you driven? Owned? Worked on? Anyone can Google misinformation and copy and paste here. Come back when you have some actual experience with the platforms in debate here please.
 

justbake

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Again, you missed the entirety of the debate.
No I didn't you changed your point so you didn't have to admit you made a misjudgment. You didn't even bring up the compression ratios until other's proved you wrong with Toyota's press release.

The new block will not make more power given the same boost pressure on the A90 B58C. 0.025 inch increase in head gasket thickness only lowers compression by around 0.5 points anyway. It's irrelevant though, as it's the final compression ratio that matters here. That being the A91 or 2021 models have a 10.2:1 while the A90 has 11.0:1. The only one moving the goal post is Toyota by using gimmicky sales tactics to hype up a poor selling platform. Simply adding frivolous bullshit upgrades and giving a lower compression motor 4-5psi more boost pressure to a factory tune isn't worth the added cost or hype IMHO, and most certainly doesn't prove that it's superior.
You can't say these things. They still aren't comparable since the heads flow differently and turbos are different, which means boost pressure can't be directly compared psi-to-psi. You have tuned 2JZs, you know these principles. You know that log manifolds have different flow characteristics than long runner manifolds. You know that xPSI with a big turbo on dyno queen cars is different than xPSI on the twins. This is why I said you're being obtuse, you know these things but want to keep arguing these things.

No one is saying one is superior to the other wtf, is your ego/self-worth measured in whp? That is an incredibly toxic way to live life. We are just saying that they produce different power levels, nothing more.


If you look at the dyno charts you'll see how far Toyota moved the goal post, I'd say about 1,500 rpm worth pushed at the top where most people don't stay on the streets LMAO.
It's only offset by 200 if you actually read the charts, after that the car makes more power than the 2020 model through out the powerband.


I get it, you don't have a car or a Supra but people will think less of you when you post out of your ass parroting the car and driver articles you keep reading. How many personal A90 Supras have you data logged? How many A90's have you driven? Owned? Worked on? Anyone can Google misinformation and copy and paste here. Come back when you have some actual experience with the platforms in debate here please.
You have all that experience and you still get proven wrong by someone who doesn't own one. I am happy for you and your car, but that doesn't mean the 2020 and 2021 differences don't exist.
 
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Z8AKU

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No I didn't you changed your point so you didn't have to admit you made a misjudgment. You didn't even bring up the compression ratios until other's proved you wrong with Toyota's press release.
No that was my point from the start, the fact that 2 motors with the same displacement and cylinders, one having a lower compression and the other having a high compression would prove that the higher compression motor will achieve more HP at the same PSI levels. Toyota has their own head's up their asses for press releases. Their statements are about as believable as CNN's reporting is on the Corona Virus. I lost count at how many times Toyota publicly released information about platforms that were later discovered to have all been changed upon actual production.



You can't say these things. They still aren't comparable since the heads flow differently and turbos are different, which means boost pressure can't be directly compared psi-to-psi.
What's heavier? 1,000 lbs of feathers? Or 1,000 lbs of steel? LOL

No one is saying one is superior to the other wtf, is your ego measured in whp? That is an incredibly toxic way to live life. We are just saying that they produce different power levels, nothing more.
Who is "we""? LOL

Yes, exactly the B58B30C and the B58M3001 do make different power but the minor indifferences of heads, pistons, exhaust manifolds are not what's creating the power. It's the turbo and the tune. Again, place the same turbo and put the same tune on the B58B30C even without the same heads, pistons or exhaust manifolds as the B58M3001 and it will make more power. What part of this do you not understand? Higher compression will win always.





It's only offset by 200 if you actually read the charts, after that the car makes more power than the 2020 model through out the powerband. You have all that experience and you still get proven wrong by someone who doesn't own one. I am happy for you and your car, but that doesn't mean the 2020 and 2021 differences don't exist.
I think you just like to argue because you have no hobbies other than lurking on this forum looking for people to argue with about misinformation from Auto manufacture's press releases and Car & Driver articles.
 

justbake

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No that was my point from the start, the fact that 2 motors with the same displacement and cylinders, one having a lower compression and the other having a high compression would prove that the higher compression motor will achieve more HP at the same PSI levels. Toyota has their own head's up their asses for press releases. Their statements are about as believable as CNN's reporting is on the Corona Virus. I lost count at how many times Toyota publicly released information about platforms that were later discovered to have all been changed upon actual production.
You said, "A91 doesn't have 40 more HP than the A90. It's the same" which is still wrong. I don't what press released have to do with that, no need to misdirect.

What's heavier? 1,000 lbs of feathers? Or 1,000 lbs of steel? LOL
?

Yes, exactly the B58B30C and the B58M3001 do make different power but the minor indifferences of heads, pistons, exhaust manifolds are not what's creating the power. It's the turbo and the tune. Again, place the same turbo and put the same tune on the B58B30C even without the same heads, pistons or exhaust manifolds as the B58M3001 and it will make more power. What part of this do you not understand? Higher compression will win always.
Okay? That's as relevant as saying the 2jzge makes more power than the 2jzgte because it has higher compression and the only reason the 2jzgte is more powerful is because the turbo and tune on it.


What part of this do you not understand?
I have agreed with that for the 4th time now.

I think you just like to argue because you have no hobbies other than lurking on this forum looking for people to argue with about misinformation from Auto manufacture's press releases and Car & Driver articles.
Nothing I have said has been wrong here.
 

jm6k

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Pretty incredible dodging here, I have to say. This must serve you well in whatever line of work you're in given your list of cars, so well done.

If you have a different starting point for your argument, fill us in. This is what I see as kicking this whole discussion off:

A91 doesn't have 40 more HP than the A90. It's the same 382hp that Toyota underquoted on the A90. That's why the A90's are putting down 340whp. If the A90 really only made 335hp at the crank then the whp would be around 285 whp.
It does have more power, it has the B58D instead of B58C.
Please provide a dyno chart. Thanks! ;)
 

Z8AKU

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Pretty incredible dodging here, I have to say. This must serve you well in whatever line of work you're in given your list of cars, so well done.

If you have a different starting point for your argument, fill us in. This is what I see as kicking this whole discussion off:
Maybe lack of clarification but not dodging. I Know what I posted and when. My statement still stands. The B58M3001 doesn't make more power than the B58B30C (given the same PSI and turbo)*. Both the B58B30C and the B58M3001 blocks are identical except for the pistons, rods and head. 3.0 / 11.0:1 Vs 3.0 / 10.2:1
 

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All engines make the same power if you remove all the variables that make them different.
 

Jabba

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This convo seems to going nowhere. It's completely irrelevant to say, "Given the same PSI and Turbo." B/c in reality, it doesn't. The B58D creates more power stock for stock. Arguing all Toyota did was turn up the boost, and the pistons, rods, head, and exhaust manifold are marketing tools, doesn't change the undeniable fact that the 2021 car makes more power than the 2020 cars.

The discussion went from the 2021 motor is exactly the same as the 2020, b/c Toyota decided to use WHP ratings for the 2021 cars, instead of rating at the crank like the 2020 cars. (DEBUNKED by car and driver dyno results)

To now, changing the angle to say 2020 motor is better by eliminating all upgrades on the 2021, except the compression ratio???????

What's next, the MPG on the 2020 is superior b/c of that HUGE 1mpg difference??
 

justbake

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The B48 makes more power than the B58D if you ignore it having less cylinders, a different tune, turbo, intake, and exhaust because it has a higher compression.

The LT1 makes more power the B48 if you ignore the other bank of cylinders, the in block cam, different heads, intake, exhaust, aspiration, and tune because it has a higher compression ratio.

LT1 > B48/B58C > 2JZ-GE VVTI > B58D > 2JZ-GE > 2JZ-GTE?
 

Jabba

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The B48 makes more power than the B58D if you ignore it having less cylinders, a different tune, turbo, intake, and exhaust because it has a higher compression.

The LT1 makes more power the B48 if you ignore the other bank of cylinders, the in block cam, different heads, intake, exhaust, aspiration, and tune because it has a higher compression ratio.

LT1 > B48/B58C > 2JZ-GE VVTI > B58D > 2JZ-GE > 2JZ-GTE?
:lol::lol::lol::lol:
This is the funniest thing I read on this forum all year.
 

DesmoSD

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Engine, Transmission, and Performance
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Z8AKU

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This convo seems to going nowhere. It's completely irrelevant to say, "Given the same PSI and Turbo." B/c in reality, it doesn't. The B58D creates more power stock for stock. Arguing all Toyota did was turn up the boost, and the pistons, rods, head, and exhaust manifold are marketing tools, doesn't change the undeniable fact that the 2021 car makes more power than the 2020 cars.

The discussion went from the 2021 motor is exactly the same as the 2020, b/c Toyota decided to use WHP ratings for the 2021 cars, instead of rating at the crank like the 2020 cars. (DEBUNKED by car and driver dyno results)

To now, changing the angle to say 2020 motor is better by eliminating all upgrades on the 2021, except the compression ratio???????

What's next, the MPG on the 2020 is superior b/c of that HUGE 1mpg difference??
Until we get confirmed stock boost pressures and stock turbo compressor sizes for the B58M3001 2021 models to compare to the 2020 model we will never know. I can tell you this though, the difference between 11.0:1 Vs. 10.2:1 compression is about 2.4%. Given the same boost on same turbo sizes the higher compression engine will make more power. This is why with a simple piggyback or mild tune with a similar boost increase and some timing advance we see the 2020 models making 400+whp. If it's discovered as I suspect that the 2021 model is simply running a remapped tune with slightly larger turbo then the 2020 model B58B30C is showing a more promising figure on the dyno.
 

kissmyrs

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There is a video on youtube now of a C8 vs 2020 A90. A90 had a passenger but it was like a bus 40-120-130.... ill see if I can link it. Roughly what the 21 did to the 20 Supra... 21 A90 vs c8 stock for stock is gonna interesting!!!
 

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