TBK's Time Attack Build: MK-BRX

[i3igpete]

MCS has a range of 6 bar to 18 bar.

Can you measure the shaft with a digital caliper or tape measure? It should be the diameter of whatever passes thru the shaft seal.

We can ballpark the internal canister volume and area if you measure the external dimensions for me

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[razorlab]

Defaults are defaults. Are we ignoring this guy posting the same Nitron system with almost 3x the rates you are going with? Sure, he has big boi aero coming but 3x your rate is BIG.

I personally only went up +100lb/in F/R when I went to baby verus aero.

 

[Z4m40i]

I was going to go with Nitrons w/ inertia labs last month but wasn’t entirely convinced. Ever since they opened up distribution in SoCal everyone talks about them.

I’m on MCS 1WNR 13k front, 11k rear w/ true rear and I still feel like it could use a little more rear spring. I’m heavier than ya’ll (~3750lbs w/ me), and the default Nitron spring options seems really off. Will be switching to a divorced setup shortly though.

 

[Nugs]

I was going to go with Nitrons w/ inertia labs last month but wasn’t entirely convinced. Ever since they opened up distribution in SoCal everyone talks about them.

I’m on MCS 1WNR 13k front, 11k rear w/ true rear and I still feel like it could use a little more rear spring. I’m heavier than ya’ll (~3750lbs w/ me), and the default Nitron spring options seems really off. Will be switching to a divorced setup shortly though.

Why are you switching to a divorced set up?

 

[Z4m40i]

Unless someone can tell me otherwise, I don’t really see a benefit for true coil overs other than the ability to change springs and adjust ride height easier. Maybe big aero can benefit from it. For me, I set it and forget it.
I had clearance issues with my aFe swaybar and had to go back to OEM. Even still, I needed to make modifications to the swaybar link stud and fastener to clear.

 

[razorlab]

Unless someone can tell me otherwise, I don’t really see a benefit for true coil overs other than the ability to change springs and adjust ride height easier. Maybe big aero can benefit from it. For me, I set it and forget it.
I had clearance issues with my aFe swaybar and had to go back to OEM. Even still, I needed to make modifications to the swaybar link stud and fastener to clear.

Meh, that shi self clears. Going on three years of IDGAF:

 

[TBK]

MCS has a range of 6 bar to 18 bar.

Can you measure the shaft with a digital caliper or tape measure? It should be the diameter of whatever passes thru the shaft seal.

We can ballpark the internal canister volume and area if you measure the external dimensions for me

I don't have them yet, they're still en route. The only figures i have (thanks to Google) are the piston rods (14/16/22mm) and 40/46mm piston design.

Defaults are defaults. Are we ignoring this guy posting the same Nitron system with almost 3x the rates you are going with? Sure, he has big boi aero coming but 3x your rate is BIG.

I personally only went up +100lb/in F/R when I went to baby verus aero.

Def not ignoring. He opted for custom spring rates. I'm curious to see how those rates work out for him with the NItrons, and when that time comes i'll also be curious about the rest of his setup, including how he setup the coilovers themselves.

But that still has nothing to do with my question, and i believe it's a legitimate one that can't be dismissed as easily as you have their by saying it's just a default. Default would make sense if the number was at least within striking distance of what you're recommending. But it's not. Their front stiffest spring is half of what you're running. Nitron is a serious company, and they don't produce low tier stuff. That doesn't mean that their rates are the ones you should be running, but if when you were purchasing your MCS coilovers, MCS themselves recommended a rate that was WILDLY different than the one you had in mind, i'm fairly certain you'd at least want to know why. I've believed it to be a suspension philosophy thing that i outlined earlier, but you guys very clearly disagree. So then why? (without being dismissive of Nitron). Nitron doesn't exactly cater to the stance crowd....

The spring recommendation was also backed by Suspension Secrets, a shop that does know a thing or 2 about suspension setup. Again, i'm not saying i'm right, but if i'm wrong, I would really like to see that argument framed to include the context of Nitron/SS recommendation.

 

[Nugs]

Def not ignoring. He opted for custom spring rates. I'm curious to see how those rates work out for him with the NItrons, and when that time comes i'll also be curious about the rest of his setup, including how he setup the coilovers themselves.

I actually let Nitron choose my spring rates.
I just told the Australian dealer all the relevant info about my car.

 

[TBK]

I actually let Nitron choose my spring rates.
I just told the Australian dealer all the relevant info about my car.

That's interesting and makes me want an answer to my question even more. How on earth does that kind of delta exist...

 

[razorlab]

That's interesting and makes me want an answer to my question even more. How on earth does that kind of delta exist...

Let me tell you a story... this will be the short version

MCS doesn't sell direct, they have a whole selling/support network with individual shops.

So when I was looking to purchase a set of MCS I looked to Vorshlag because the owner was a racer, he posted a bunch of cool stuff online all the time and he seem to be very knowledgable in suspension. You might already know where this is going...

First off, the recommended spring rates seemed off to me, they were recommending much higher rate in the rear compared to the front. I knew I didn't want that but they insisted that I try it and I could just swap spring rates if I didn't like it. I knew I wouldn't, having driven cars setup like that, so I agreed, but also bought a set of springs closer to what I thought I would want. However, that turned out to be the least of my worries.

Suspension arrived after a dumb amount of waiting and lack of communication. Absolute trash setup. So bad that I was wondering if they had ever even installed a set on a Supra ever. Spring length was too short, no helper springs, etc. I called them and Terry the owner basically told me to not question him and just install them. So I did. The rear, at full height adjustment, was DUMPED. Like show car stance dumped. Absolute trash. Also, as soon as the suspension didn't have weight on it, the spring would just rattle around. So basically on track over curbing and stuff it would be bad news. Front was also the same, way too low and spring rattling around. Emailed Terry because he wouldn't pick up the phone for like 3 days straight. He basically told me I was the problem and he no longer wanted to talk to me.

So... Terry at Vorshit can EAD. In the end, I fixed ALL his dumb mistakes and have a well setup suspensions system. Since then, I have seen others fall prey to this horrible shop with the same crap setup.

One thing to note is that MCS support was OUTSTANDING through all of this.

I was already weary of things like this, but this made me question things even more so. So, this is why "default" or "recommended" needs to be looked into more than just blindly trusting.

 

[TBK]

Let me tell you a story... this will be the short version

MCS doesn't sell direct, they have a whole selling/support network with individual shops.

So when I was looking to purchase a set of MCS I looked to Vorshlag because the owner was a racer, he posted a bunch of cool stuff online all the time and he seem to be very knowledgable in suspension. You might already know where this is going...

First off, the recommended spring rates seemed off to me, they were recommending much higher rate in the rear compared to the front. I knew I didn't want that but they insisted that I try it and I could just swap spring rates if I didn't like it. I knew I wouldn't, having driven cars setup like that, so I agreed, but also bought a set of springs closer to what I thought I would want. However, that turned out to be the least of my worries.

Suspension arrived after a dumb amount of waiting and lack of communication. Absolute trash setup. So bad that I was wondering if they had ever even installed a set on a Supra ever. Spring length was too short, no helper springs, etc. I called them and Terry the owner basically told me to not question him and just install them. So I did. The rear, at full height adjustment, was DUMPED. Like show car stance dumped. Absolute trash. Also, as soon as the suspension didn't have weight on it, the spring would just rattle around. So basically on track over curbing and stuff it would be bad news. Front was also the same, way too low and spring rattling around. Emailed Terry because he wouldn't pick up the phone for like 3 days straight. He basically told me I was the problem and he no longer wanted to talk to me.

So... Terry at Vorshit can EAD. In the end, I fixed ALL his dumb mistakes and have a well setup suspensions system. Since then, I have seen others fall prey to this horrible shop with the same crap setup.

One thing to note is that MCS support was OUTSTANDING through all of this.

I was already weary of things like this, but this made me question things even more so. So, this is why "default" or "recommended" needs to be looked into more than just blindly trusting.

Had Vorshlag camber plates 10 years ago or on my Subaru, and my one rule when shopping for ones that fit my Ohlins on the Supra was....no Vorshlags. I do not like their product or the company either.

So aside from Nitron, i also had/have Suspension Secrets advising me, and they're truly good at what they do. That said, i do agree with your broader point about diligence. I've also now reached out to Nitron for more clarification and will update this thread once i have answers. I've basically clued them in on most of the points made ITT as far as this conversation goes. Let's see how they respond.

It's too late for me to change the spring rates now anyway, because i'm not going to do that without revalving the shocks. So will run them as is when they arrive, and see how it goes. The option to revalve and re-spring will always be there, it's just a hassle (shipping to the UK + lead time + cost).

For now though i'm more interested in their answer to my email than anything else.

 

[razorlab]

Had Vorshlag camber plates 10 years ago or on my Subaru, and my one rule when shopping for ones that fit my Ohlins on the Supra was....no Vorshlags. I do not like their product or the company either.

So aside from Nitron, i also had/have Suspension Secrets advising me, and they're truly good at what they do. That said, i do agree with your broader point about diligence. I've also now reached out to Nitron for more clarification and will update this thread once i have answers. I've basically clued them in on most of the points made ITT as far as this conversation goes. Let's see how they respond.

It's too late for me to change the spring rates now anyway, because i'm not going to do that without revalving the shocks. So will run them as is when they arrive, and see how it goes. The option to revalve and re-spring will always be there, it's just a hassle (shipping to the UK + lead time + cost).

For now though i'm more interested in their answer to my email than anything else.

A well built and designed damper should accommodate a good range of spring rates without issue. You don’t need to revalve them for every rate change. MCS chatted with me in depth about this.

 

[TBK]

A well built and designed damper should accommodate a good range of spring rates without issue. You don’t need to revalve them for every rate change. MCS chatted with me in depth about this.

They're still valved for a specific range though, and AFAIK that range is about +- 15% or so. And we're talking about numbers well outside of that range. I'm not sure how accurate that 15% figure is, but it does makes sense, otherwise the "spring rate specifc valving" claim becomes a moot point altogether....I did mention that to Nitron in the email as well so hopefully they don't gloss over that point.

I have time for that anyway because i want to hear from them (and maybe even try the setup) first before making any decisions.

Worth saying that i don't mind experimenting and learning. I quite enjoy it actually, even if it sometimes sets me back a few $$

 

[TBK]

So i have a lot of open topics i need to get back to, which i'll list below so i don't forget, and because i need t momentarily move on so i can also log some other updates.
1- waiting on a response from Nitron re the spring rate debate
2- waiting for Pure to send me the wastegate parts. For now the temp patch job has been holding up
3- FFS i need to figure out how to log with BM3...this is really starting to get to me, but i NEED to log at the track. Everytime i try, i get 1-3 seconds logs at most. There's clearly some kind of interference happening. (Bluetooth is off)

Now on to the updates

PPE pan. We cut around it to make it fit

AOS. I don't know if it's even really needed, but 1i'm never going to be upset about a reliability mod and i'm not sure what happens when we keep pushing the numbers up.

Project mu Racing999 pads. I'm hoping these pads last a bit longer than they should. Until the end of November, when the Alcons arrive.

 

[Z4m40i]

Kern417 had a similar wastegate issue on his DAW turbo.


bootmod3 logging can be shitty. Sometimes the refresh rates get really really slow, sometimes i lose connection. Shut down the app, cycle your WiFi, unplug/plug your dongle.

not sure if you adjusted the logging thresholds, but you can go to

Menu-> dashboard -> configure dashboard -> data log settings -> scroll to the bottom.

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