The MKIV vs MKV Thread

For those with mkiv's, will you be selling yours to get a mkv?


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Oxytal

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It's not that difficult to understand.. the point is so we wouldn't end up with a Supra with schizophrenia.
I don't know about you but I'd rather get a $50k Supra from a collab that exists now and performs well rather than a $100k Supra that would still be vaporware at this point in time





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kona61

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It's not that difficult to understand.. the point is so we wouldn't end up with a Supra with schizophrenia.
Oh that’s my Instagram bio!!!

Though to be fair, I would not have bought it if the cost exceeded 100k. It just wouldn’t be worth it to me, I assume the same would be true for most others on the forum, too.
 

Supra Turbo

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I don't know about you but I'd rather get a $50k Supra from a collab that exists now and performs well rather than a $100k Supra that would still be vaporware at this point in time
I would rather get a $100k Supra that would exist when it's ready without a collaboration and performs significantly above it's competition.

Oh that’s my Instagram bio!!!

Though to be fair, I would not have bought it if the cost exceeded 100k. It just wouldn’t be worth it to me, I assume the same would be true for most others on the forum, too.
Fair enough. Perhaps Toyota had a different target audience with this car all together.
 

KahnBB6

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it would also be subject to a plethora of regulations
^^ This. Besides the contraction of the sportscar market overall and the estimated $100k or so cost for an in-house Supra the specter of much more stringent upcoming regulations would make a powerful and tuneable Toyota-only RWD Inline-six turbo non-hybrid and minimally safety assisted Supra much harder to get released for production.

One way or another they had to get it initially released for sale by model year 2020 and they wanted to make the base models much more affordable than $100k+ each.
 

Oxytal

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I would rather get a $100k Supra that would exist when it's ready without a collaboration and performs significantly above it's competition.

Fair enough. Perhaps Toyota had a different target audience with this car all together.
I think the crux of the problem here is you were expecting a Toyota supercar a la GT-R/NSX with the specs to match when Toyota targeted a much more prospective target audience and spec'd it to perform at the price they wanted. Heck, people are complaining that the Supra is priced too high at the moment.
 

F1nest11

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I think the crux of the problem here is you were expecting a Toyota supercar a la GT-R/NSX with the specs to match when Toyota targeted a much more prospective target audience and spec'd it to perform at the price they wanted. Heck, people are complaining that the Supra is priced too high at the moment.
A Supra to beat a GTR and NSX definitely should've not been the impression for this car. Toyota makes a nice profit on selling trucks vs corollas. They were conscience on price when creating this car which the collaboration with BMW was not a bad move.

I'd say its price is so-so. I wish it were like 46k. I wouldn't say it's the best bang for your buck but I will say it is a lot of fun. I always thought the Type-R was priced too high but they sell and they havent depreciated much.

I hope these sell very well so it helps fund the next iteration.
 

Supra Turbo

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it would also be subject to a plethora of regulations
^^ This. Besides the contraction of the sportscar market overall and the estimated $100k or so cost for an in-house Supra the specter of much more stringent upcoming regulations would make a powerful and tuneable Toyota-only RWD Inline-six turbo non-hybrid and minimally safety assisted Supra much harder to get released for production.

One way or another they had to get it initially released for sale by model year 2020 and they wanted to make the base models much more affordable than $100k+ each.
I'm sure it would be.. but they could have also released it in 2003 when the regulations were less strict, not release it at all, or call it something else. Now it's a whole different game and the expectations are much higher from regulations and performance standpoints. In addition, it did not need to be an inline-six. Plenty, including GT-Rs have gone V and look at what records the car set all from Nissan.

I think the crux of the problem here is you were expecting a Toyota supercar a la GT-R/NSX with the specs to match when Toyota targeted a much more prospective target audience and spec'd it to perform at the price they wanted. Heck, people are complaining that the Supra is priced too high at the moment.
When you take 20 years to bring back your halo car, it should exceed all expectations. From most I've talked to, price is rarely the issue. It's what the vehicle offers as the new "Supra". A name that represents above and beyond.

Anyways, I can now see clearly the target audience for this car. Well played Toyota. Carry on guys.
 
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PerformanceSound

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they could have also released it in 2003 when the regulations were less strict, not release it at all, or call it something else.
I was always for the MKV Supra not being called a "Supra"....actually even to this day, I still would have preferred they called it a "GT-1" or something close to the concept name (like the FT-86 that became the GT-86). I feel like it would have settled better with everyone....Supra fanatics or not. Whether or not the MKV Supra is a "successor" to the MKIV Supra is very controversial in the community, however, I believe the platform will evolve into something so unique and great that it will win fans from both sides in time....just like the MKIV did. Again, you have to remember why the MKIV was discontinued in the U.S. after only 4yrs....and it's not because of being a leader in anything or it's looks and styling ;). It wasn't until more than 10yrs later that people realized the MKIV Supra's potential. Make no mistake, the MKIV Supra was passed by MANY sports-car buyers during it's run here because of it's cost. So, if folks couldn't fork out that kind of money in the 90's for such an "amazing car", what makes anyone believe folks will do so today? Yeah, you and I would have done so....but how many more?...enough to keep the nameplate afloat in production? Probably not :rolleyes:.

Also...i've said this before many times...you cannot compare the GT-R to any other Japanese sports car. It's long running racing reputation and history alone is worth $100k....so, throw in super car performance and you can quickly see why Nissan has no worries of selling them at over $100k. Don't believe me, check out the NSX's sales figures....it was suppose to be a GT-R competitor no? The GT-R will be the last standing super car to come out of Japan.
 

A70TTR

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A side question for A70TTR: Tada-san has spoken many times about Isao Tsuzuki and his work as the MKIV's chief engineer but I have also read that a man named Nobuaki Katayama was the MKIV's chief engineer and I don't know if that's accurate. Do you know anything about how Tsuzuki and Katayama's involvement in the MKIV/A80 project differed and where they converged?
Tsuzuki-san was the chief engineer of the JZA80 through development and release, and Nobuaki Katayama took over as chief engineer sometime after that before it was discontinued IIRC. That said, he worked on the AE86 and contributed heavily during development of: SC, JZA80, and was chief engineer of the original IS project.
 

Supra Turbo

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I was always for the MKV Supra not being called a "Supra"....actually even to this day, I still would have preferred they called it a "GT-1" or something close to the concept name (like the FT-86 that became the GT-86). I feel like it would have settled better with everyone....Supra fanatics or not. Whether or not the MKV Supra is a "successor" to the MKIV Supra is very controversial in the community, however, I believe the platform will evolve into something so unique and great that it will win fans from both sides in time....just like the MKIV did. Again, you have to remember why the MKIV was discontinued in the U.S. after only 4yrs....and it's not because of being a leader in anything or it's looks and styling ;). It wasn't until more than 10yrs later that people realized the MKIV Supra's potential. Make no mistake, the MKIV Supra was passed by MANY sports-car buyers during it's run here because of it's cost. So, if folks couldn't fork out that kind of money in the 90's for such an "amazing car", what makes anyone believe folks will do so today? Yeah, you and I would have done so....but how many more?...enough to keep the nameplate afloat in production? Probably not :rolleyes:.

Also...i've said this before many times...you cannot compare the GT-R to any other Japanese sports car. It's long running racing reputation and history alone is worth $100k....so, throw in super car performance and you can quickly see why Nissan has no worries of selling them at over $100k. Don't believe me, check out the NSX's sales figures....it was suppose to be a GT-R competitor no? The GT-R will be the last standing super car to come out of Japan.
IMO, they should have just stuck with FT-1 if they chose to go the whole BMW route. I don't think anyone is arguing it's potential, it's the BMW aspect in a "Supra" that simply overrides all that. And of course this car is expected to sell better than the NSX since more people can afford it. The question is does it do the Supra name justice. Anyways we're just going back and forth here and beating a dead horse. Moving on...
 

2JZ-No-Sh*t

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Didn’t bother me that much since I ended up getting one. But send me some of your dildos you don’t use anymore so can slap them on my bumper though.
Yeah your mom prefers me to use the real thing on her. ;)
 

PerformanceSound

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IMO, they should have just stuck with FT-1 if they chose to go the whole BMW route. I don't think anyone is arguing it's potential, it's the BMW aspect in a "Supra" that simply overrides all that. And of course this car is expected to sell better than the NSX since more people can afford it. The question is does it do the Supra name justice. Anyways we're just going back and forth here and beating a dead horse. Moving on...
Yeah, surely time will tell. The BMW factor is in the back of everyone’s mind no doubt. However, I like to think that Toyota’s stamp of approval on anything isn’t something to overlook either.

It’s kind of like Hino Motors...and Toyota using Hino engines for the 3rd Gen 4Runners. Toyota didn’t engineer the motors, Hino did (even though Toyota bought Hino years ago). Yet, Toyota’s stamp of approval on the design and manufacturing led to the 3rd Gen 4Runner’s 5VZFE engine success as being one of the best engines to ever be put in a Toyota 4x4. It’s a Toyota motor on paper, but it’s a Hino engine. Let’s see what happens with the MKV, my bet is 2022 will bring some nice “changes.”
 

A70TTR

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I had never heard of the VZ engines being influenced by Hino in any way, so I just asked my boss who is riding with me right now and he said the VZ in general is Toyota design with DOHC variants further revised by Yamaha. That's not to say Hino didn't assist with it in some way as evidenced by the T100 below (or perhaps it was only the 5VZ?)...

Things Hino has and does make for Toyota:

T100 partial engineering and full assembly
Fj Cruiser full assembly
Land Cruiser Prado full assembly
Toyoace full assembly
Suspension, axles, knuckles for various trucks and SUVs
 

PerformanceSound

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I had never heard of the VZ engines being influenced by Hino in any way, so I just asked my boss who is riding with me right now and he said the VZ in general is Toyota design with DOHC variants further revised by Yamaha.

Things Hino has and does make for Toyota:

T100 partial engineering and full assembly
Fj Cruiser full assembly
Land Cruiser Prado full assembly
Toyoace full assembly
Suspension, axles, knuckles for various trucks and SUVs
If I am not mistaken, the 1994-1998 T100's that had the 5VZFE had the original Hino design (just like all the 3rd Gen 4Runners and simialr year Taco's). Then in 1998, production was moved from Hino factory in Japan to the new Toyota facility in Princeton Indiana and were then making the all new 1999 Tundra, etc... (4Runners still having the old design). Those I believe used the Yamaha revised heads. The 5VZFE as I have read numerous times, is a Hino design.
 

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