Interviews with Chief Engineer Tetsuya Tada

[MA617M]

get a room guys, jeez

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[DevonK]

If the car does come in at $55k in the States the lowest possible MSRP for Canada will be about $60k. Add 13% for federal plus Ontario tax (HST) along with the standard ~$1750 for Canadian delivery and PDI we get $71k CAD. Ouch.

And the burn is likely to be worse - a base Corvette costing $55k in the US costs $65k here. That same pricing differential would give an OTD price of $75k CAD for the Supra.

The only positive in all this for us is that they can't be sold above MSRP here - for example when the Civic Type Rs were being marked up $10k-20k down south there was no ADM in Ontario.

 

[mkivalex]

Based on US to CDN Toyota vehicles, markup is about 13% like you said. 60 ish CDN for a car like what is being described sounds OK to me!

 

[Lexusisf]

Seems about right, just did a quick comparison of a base 86 on Toyota US and Canada websites excluding tax or pdi etc.
Base $26,255 vs. $29,990 or about 13%. So assuming top trim model it will be approx in that $60K range Canadian rather pricey...

 

[SupraFiend]

I've been interested in this car since I first caught wind of it, but I would only actually consider buying one new if it had a real Toyota heart. Very interested in more info on the latest motor rumors here. Like who is building what and who designed what. It seems odd BMW would roll out a new i6 so soon, they haven't even propagated the b\s58 across their entire current line up yet. Everyone wants a true successor to the 2j of course, but if its built and mostly, if not entirely, engineered by BMW, I'd be pretty skeptical of them being able to pull it off.

 

[mkivalex]

Seems about right, just did a quick comparison of a base 86 on Toyota US and Canada websites excluding tax or pdi etc.
Base $26,255 vs. $29,990 or about 13%. So assuming top trim model it will be approx in that $60K range Canadian rather pricey...

The MKIV in top trim was approaching 80K CDN when it was new. Mind you the dollar was worse than it is now....but having said that 60K CDN would to be honest be less than I expect.

 

[bogglo]

Soooo, somebody mentioned this to me in a hush hush way lol. They were like, the engineers have been constantly talking about strength and tuning potential, which is very uncharacteristic of something an OEM would talk about in this day and age. I know Tada-San talked about what he learned from the resurgence of tuning due to the 86, but I didn't really know to what extent he considered it.



But THIS^, I had no clue. This is very interesting information. I thought for sure we were getting a B58 with a Toyota head, but a new co-developed motor would be freaking awesome. The rear-facing timing system was always something that concerned me about the B58 that can't really be changed easily, so they better get rid of that lol.

Well I guess the guy from Land Cruiser forum from Last year was correct when He said it was an entirely new engine. Glad to hear this news.

 

[Lexusisf]

The MKIV in top trim was approaching 80K CDN when it was new. Mind you the dollar was worse than it is now....but having said that 60K CDN would to be honest be less than I expect.

Ya I remember that, the Nissan 300zx twin turbo pricing (I owned a 90/92 both manuals) was also getting out of control at the end of production...today alot has changed, as well as, Lexus is in the picture now which is significant, so pricing has to make sence. For us in Canada I think $60 is right on...

 

[Prius_F_Sport]

Also because the Canadian dollar is worth slightly less, then a good estimate for us USA people is $55-60k for a loaded Turbo trim.

 

[Lexusisf]

Hopefully low 50’s for US...

 

[smokie]

I remember when the frs/bra came out everyone was putting the price around 19-22k. It ended up being 25-29k..

 

[A70TTR]

Probably an accurate comparison as plenty of folks want $45-50k, but it's likely gonna be $55-60k depending on options.

Time will tell.

 

[supraboi]

I remember when the frs/bra came out everyone was putting the price around 19-22k. It ended up being 25-29k..

In that case Tada-san said "low $20ks". I took that as being around $22k. The FR-S was released at $24.2k in 2012. The price differences was only like $2.2k, not to far off IMO.

 

[Supra93]

Chief engineer Tetsuya Tada Talks about the new Supra! May 25 at 21 o'clock

Anyone speak Japanese?



Updated base on zakira's comment.

Yeah. Here is a breakdown of the interview (I'm ignoring all the pleasantries, talk about Tada-san's history and non-Supra stuff in the beginning):

15 minutes into interview Tada-san shares a little more of the Toyota-BMW partnership experience.

Tada-san: Our relationship with BMW wasn’t always perfect…

It was 2012, and we were still having basic discussions about how to build a sports car together. BMW and Toyota associates still really didn’t know each other, so we thought it would be appropriate to have cross-company test drive event at a BMW test track where we could drive each other’s products. We would bring our sports cars, the 86, etc. and they would provide vehicles like their M cars.

It was my first time being a guest of BMW at one of their test track facilities, so the other Toyota test drivers and I arrived about an hour early.

It was pouring rain and I asked if there somewhere we can wait.

They told us to stand waiting under a tent set up in the middle of the test track.

I noticed there were many buildings all around us asked if we could wait inside a building.

Our hosts replied: “You guys? There are no buildings that you dudes can enter.” Delivered in a tone that suggested my query was in defiance of common sense.

When the event finally began, the tent kept us dry but provided no shelter from the raw opinions and observations of my Bavarian counterparts as they experienced our vehicles.
They all knew the Toyota brand, but very few had experience with our cars. I heard comments like:

“This is the first time I’ve driven a Toyota in my life.”
“Oh wow, I can’t believe it actually drives like a normal car!”
“What is this thing?”

It was at that point that I learned a little bit more about how to understand the folks at BMW.

Q&A from about 8 min.

Q: When did you first receive word that you would be working on the Supra?
A: In early 2012, I was in the middle of the 86 Press Launch in Spain when I received a call from Japan. It was Uchiyamada-san (VP of Toyota) asking/ordering me to go to Germany.

Q: Does that happen a lot a Toyota? Being singled out by the higher-ups for a special secret project?
A: Yeah. I guess so.

Q:The announcement of a partnership with BMW was soon made after, wasn't it?
A: Yeah, starting with diesel engines and expanding from there.

Q: So why were you chosen? For your work with the 86/BRZ?
A (Jokingly): I guess I was travelling to Spain so often, they thought Germany wasn't so far away.

Q: GTFO. (loosely translated)
A: Besides working with Subaru on the twins, I also have experience working with Daihatsu on the Passo. So I guess I have experience negotiating with other companies.

Q: Was the decision to develop a sports car made at that time, then?
A: Yes.

Q: Why a sports car?
A: I knew that they (BMW) had a fundamentally different way of making vehicles but their cars are good, the people are good and I was left with a positive impression.

Q: So it was that simple? BMW folks are good people -> Let's make a sports car?
A: No, not really. It took about a year of consideration. Lining up the differences between the companies and figuring out if it can really be done. Resolving any doubts about the fundamental partnership between companies before even getting into what type of vehicle to make.

Q: Did you have any concerns at this time?
A: I was just finishing up the twins. The project with Subaru. It was exhausting. I didn't want to do another joint project ever again. I think Subaru felt the same. However, I felt completely confident about the partnership with BMW. The prospect of working with Germans made the difference. I don't know how to put it, exactly. The difference in conduct and conversation. It wasn't totally easy. (He gives anecdote about an early cross-company test drive event where the Toyota people were not allowed inside BMW facilities and how some BMW staff have never driven a Toyota in their life.)

< 5 mins of random chat about the difference of working with foreigners >

Q: What was BMW's response to Toyota's proposal to build a sports car together?
A: OK. Whatev.

Q: GTFO. (loosely translated)
A: Seriously. The second time around I came up to them and said, "Let's make a sports car that will blow Porsche away!". BMW responded with "Hrm.....". I got the impression that the people at BMW believe that we have no understanding what it takes to build a car that can beat Porsche. The mindset is different. They were not into direct benchmarking or anything like that. They said, "If you like Porsche so much, why don't you just buy one?"

Q: So how did you proceed under these conditions? You had to make a sports car, but it couldn't just be a badge engineered BMW.
A: Well, BMW's are good. You know from the moment you get behind the wheel. They can make these impressive cars. I wanted to absorb this ability to make a vehicle that is great to drive but focus our effort on a sports car. So, while BMW didn't want to make an outright sports car, I wanted ours to be one. If you look at BMW's history, their pedigree mostly consists of taking a normal passenger vehicle and making into an M car, not so much outright sports models.

Q: Wow. So you had a massive challenge right from the beginning. What did you want to accomplish with a sports car?
A: Toyota used to make sports cars. At one point, we were even the #1 maker of sports cars. When we quit making them, we lost those sports car customers and enthusiasts. It's a shame. We brought the 86 out as a core sports model, and our President and VP want greater focus placed on enthusiasts. As development progressed, we also were able to show BMW that what we were thinking and our communication improved. They saw that we knew how to identify and solve potential problems when it comes to vehicle development. Our working relationship warmed as development progressed. In the end, it's about people.

Q: Was the name Supra decided at the early stages?
A: Not officially, but in my mind, it was. This goes back to early in my career. Years ago, I was called to the Product Planning division by the former Chief Engineer Suzuki of the JZA80 Supra. I was so excited, I was sure that I was going to be assigned to the next Supra. I was assigned to the Raum. I was a little disappointed. I voiced my disappointment to my boss and he got pissed. He told me it doesn't matter if it's a Raum or a Supra, you gotta know how to make a good car.

Q: Don't you think it's a little difficult to be launching a sports car given today's market conditions?
A: No. All you hear about today is the progression of autonomous driving, electrification, car sharing, and technologies designed to eliminate the burden of driving. I think that we can leverage some of these technologies to make a sports car that appeals to people wanting to own the hedonistic antithesis of a shared autonomous vehicle. (Loosely translated)

Q: So how do you give Supra it’s own identity when it’s foundations are going to be built on a BMW, which are renowned for having their own distinctive driving dynamics due to 50:50 weight distribution. Won’t it drive like a BMW?
A: It’s about having a balance. Suspension tuning, tires and whatnot influence handling, of course. But 80 to 90% of a vehicle’s dynamic performance is dictated by its wheelbase, tread width and center of gravity height. That’s it. Everything else, the suspension, body rigidity etc. makes up the rest. There is a golden ratio of 1.5 to 1.6 wheelbase-to-tread that you will find on all the world’s supercars. Ferrari, Lamborghini, Porsche. That’s what we planned from the beginning.

Q: What have you announced regarding the engine? Inline….
A: Inline something. That’s all we’ve announced. Of course, being a Supra it must be available with an inline 6. This is another reason why this project is possible with BMW. They are basically the only ones making inline 6s anymore.

Q: Turbo? Yeah, it’s gotta be turbo, right? Maybe an N/A version too??
A: You mentioned turbo. Let me tell you something. With the 86, I must have been asked a million times, “When is the turbo version coming out?”. Now people suspect that I hate turbos.

Q: Transmission. AT? DCT? MT?
A: All we have announced is that we’ve considered them all. Lifecycle impulse changes also being considered.

Q: I’ve seen that the wheelbase is shorter than that of the 86. Will it be stable on the highway?
A: Yes. A racing cart has a wheelbase-to-tread ratio of about 1.1. That’s great for handling but would lead to terrible ride on the highway and autobahn. We wanted outstanding high-speed stability, so we have a longer ratio. I think you will be surprised at how stable the Supra is at speeds above 230 km/h.

Q: Is BMW just supplying the engine? Are they just developing their Z4 and letting you do your own thing or do they have more involvement?
A: I’ve been in the Sports Car Planning Department for a while and know that it is tough to turn a profit with this segment. Therefore, companies will share designs, parts, production costs and so on. I thought this was common sense, but when I brought it up with BMW they didn’t know what I was talking about.
When pressed, they said, “If you can’t make the car you want to make then what’s the point of making anything?”. After that, we went our own design direction. They went on a Z4 vector, and we went on a Supra vector. Afterwards we figured out what components could be shared.

Q: So in terms of actual production, who is building the car, BMW?
A: Yes. When you say BMW…this means the partner company responsible for BMW production.

Q: What about design and development?
A: It’s like the 86. Planning and design is Toyota. Development and production is BMW.

Q: So BMW is also in charge of tuning?
A: No, that’s our responsibility. We have embedded our test drivers and tuning teams at BMW.

Q: So have you driven the new Z4?
A: Of course.

Q: To make sure it is different, like the BRZ and 86?
A: You can’t really compare the difference between the Z4 and Supra to the twins. The Z4 and Supra have totally different starting points. There really isn’t a lot of commonality between the Z4 and Supra. Even I was surprised at how little is shared when I was looking at a breakdown of all the common components.

Q: So the I6 engine and suspension will be BMW parts but tuned by Toyota to give Supra its identity?
A: Yes.

Q: Isn’t it weird to have BMW employees participating in the production of the Supra?
A: It’s interesting to see their reaction when they view our engineering and experience the prototypes. I think we may have proven that we know a thing or two about making sports cars. I also think that they have been impressed by some aspects.

Q: Where was this photo taken? When you do these tests, is it just Toyota people going or BMW people as well

A: Sweden. Both BMW and Toyota employees go on these tests. BMW conducts public road tests as soon as their prototypes are made. This is a significant departure from normal Toyota prototype testing. Compared to the 86, we’ve easily done more than 10 times as much on-road testing

Q: Are you mostly testing in Europe?
A: Europe, America and a little bit in Japan.

Q: Don’t you think this will be a little bit much for Japan? As in, you won’t really be able to enjoy it unless you are at a track?
A: That’s the same for all sports cars. For the Supra, I think people will be impressed, even at lower speeds.

Q: You debuted a race version at Geneva. What’s that all about?
A: It’s not just a concept. That’s the real thing. We wanted to see what was required to build a homologation spec car from the production car. We then used that feedback to modify the production version so that minimal changes would be needed to get it into racing spec.

Q: Tires. You made a big deal about the tire choice on the 86. What about the Supra?
A: The 86 was all about being playful and fun. Tires are easy for customers to change, so with the 86, if users wanted more grip – then they could easily change the tires. With the Supra, we envision customers wanting maximum performance from the showroom, without the need to go tire shopping.

Q: You mention price, this thing is going to be more expensive than the 86, isn’t it?
A: Of course. It’s going to be a halo car for Toyota. At the same time, we want it to be attainable. I believe it will make a compelling value proposition.

Q: Did Akio drive the prototypes?
A: Yeah, and he gave us feedback that led to us changing some aspects of the car.

Q: What about a manual transmission?
A: We received that question a lot at Geneva as well. We know the merits of a manual transmission. It’s enjoyable to operate, and in the hands of a capable driver, can offer faster lap times. However, very little progress has been made on the development of manual transmissions. Compare this to what we have seen in the world of DCT, and especially automatic transmissions. The most recent ATs offer amazing performance that is probably best suited to the Supra. It is usually at this point that people say, “So there is no manual transmission, then!” and flip out. Who knows what the future holds. If people drive it and still want an MT, then of course, we would like to supply it. Even Porsche has pretty much gone all PDK except for a few specialized models intended for fanatics.

Q: What else will make the Supra feel like a Toyota?
A: Toyota is conventionally associated with environmental performance. We wanted to break the mold with this car. We will announce something along these lines later.

 

[Blupra]

I actually have some questions on output, but that part I feel is likely around the same number. I also feel that has a ton to do with marketing/sales and if they feel 350hp is enough.

Maybe they'll say, 'no we need 400 in ordered to get the bald eagles flying and flags waving' lol

Being a turbo (easy to modify) it doesn't really matter if its 360hp vs 390 vs 405, the engine potential is what most Supra fans will care about. But to the average 'merican, 400 hp is a lot sexier than 390 hp.

I have faith, but its hard for all three of the following to be true; under 3000lbs, 400 hp, and $55k US. Its either going to have less power, more weight, or be at least $60k. I hope I'm wrong.

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