New (Unconfirmed) Details and Specifications of US-Spec MKV Supra:

[Modal170]

Small update:

Some murmurs of available trim levels/option packages. Potential for a 'fairly basic' base car available, not like a JDM RC/Stripper model, but basic sound and seats and a minimal amount of added safety gadgetry. Then options for premium stuff that will add cost and, of course, weight.

The caveat here is that I don't know what the base specs or price is. I would assume that the leaked $63k price is for something fully loaded, so we'd be working down from there.

If I'm guessing, I'd say base car comes in right under 60k, maybe even getting close to the base Cayman's $56,900, but this is purely speculation. Let's keep in mind that a base Cayman with an Automatic costs $60,110, makes 300hp/280tq, and weighs 3010 lbs. The Cayman S starts at $72,510 for the Auto ($69,300 for the manual), makes 350hp/309tq, and weighs 3054 lbs. Toyota no doubt knows this, and understands the value proposition their car has to have in order to be competitive. Even hardcore Toyota fanboys like myself would think twice about passing up a Cayman for a Toyota that was objectively worse for the same money.

Of course, as usual, none of this is certain. I'm just trying to keep my finger on the pulse here. I'll update if I get more info.

I am feeling better but I can't imagine the top trim Supra weighing less than 3350 unless they made that model full carbon fiber materials among the safety features to shed weight. If they sell a 62.5k 425 hp model at 3200 -50 bs flat, it would indeed be a rival against the S while keeping the top level features and make people take a look.

Which brings me back to the base. If the base can sit at 53k, it would be fine considering if you go on the Porsche site and see how much options start tacking on and change the final price

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[Novice_Mentality]

Do you guys think magnesium was used for weight savings and that might be another reason the cost is high?

 

[Lexusisf]

LEG1T what HP are you suggesting at those trim levels?

 

[Illsic_Design]

Unfortunately.. it’s becoming more and more of a Zupra

It was always just going to be a reskinned Z4, at least the first iteration of it. The whole reason BMW and Toyota did this together was to cut costs. Just because it was going to cut costs by doing it together doesn't mean they would be able to do any major individualization to each car, that would cost too much money which is why this is a joint venture in the first place. Of course some stuff will be different, like interior items and of course exterior styling, but to think the Supra would have its own, new or even majorly tweaked engine compared to the Z4 would be asinine. Not saying they won't/aren't coming out with one later, but you had to figure this first version of the mkv would be almost a Z4 clone.

But I hope we're all wrong....

 

[Spilner]

It was always just going to be a reskinned Z4, at least the first iteration of it. The whole reason BMW and Toyota did this together was to cut costs. Just because it was going to cut costs by doing it together doesn't mean they would be able to do any major individualization to each car, that would cost too much money which is why this is a joint venture in the first place. Of course some stuff will be different, like interior items and of course exterior styling, but to think the Supra would have its own, new or even majorly tweaked engine compared to the Z4 would be asinine. Not saying they won't/aren't coming out with one later, but you had to figure this first version of the mkv would be almost a Z4 clone.

But I hope we're all wrong....

Looks like someone has some required reading to do

 

[vb22]

I just saw that this thread got featured and this rendering was used as a preview. Does that mean these are the closest ones to the real thing?

 

[Illsic_Design]

Looks like someone has some required reading to do

like?

I've been reading about the Supra and the Z4 since it came about a few years back. If you guys couldn't see this coming I don't know what to tell you......

btw I've read all 22 pages of this thread and a bunch of other threads, plus all the BMW threads. I am well informed on the two..........

 

[bogglo]

I am quite aware of that as the focus is different but I figured with the two companies being entirely different yet working together, Lexus would want to be seeing what their brother is doing while keeping an ear on the partner of BMW.

I recall A70 saying Lexus put some pressure or was at least voicing their concerns of the car's performance coming after them.BMW has luxury, perhaps not at the level of a Audi or Lexus but upscaled materials

Or my mind is playing tricks, probably the latter

I don't think your mind is playing tricks on you.

No matter what toyota wants to do, the effect on lexus would still be considered. With that been said, A 60k supra to me still dont make sense unless Lexus has plans of discontinuing the RC. You have to remember when the MKIV was released there was no SCF/RCF/ISF. Fast forward to today those car limits the potential of the supra.

I will stick to the estimated price that was stated in the interview with Tada. There is no way Toyota would price the supra even 2k less than the RCF and they are both doing 0-60 around 4.5secs and thats with the RCF having backseat, luxurious interior all the mark levinson speakers with a SUB.

The right spec for the supra right now IMO would be this:

Price: 55k(no options) to 60K(fully optioned)
Weight: 3250lb fully optioned
Power: 380HP torque >= 369lbft (hopefully the understated power BMW does plays here)


What if the addition of a sunroof is what add weight to the car. and maybe one of the option would be carbon fiber option like the RCF (Just thinking out loud)

 

[Modal170]

like?

I've been reading about the Supra and the Z4 since it came about a few years back. If you guys couldn't see this coming I don't know what to tell you......

btw I've read all 22 pages of this thread and a bunch of other threads, plus all the BMW threads. I am well informed on the two..........

So you are aware of the interview with tada thread, the one where A70 gave hints to what is suppose to be coming from his personal experience and what he has seen?

 

[Lexusisf]

Guff effectively summarized what I said to him, but something worth consideration is that my source (someone that works with Tada on and off constantly) mentioned that the car did gain some weight over the mules due to TSS and options, but he did not know the exact number.

After looking into component weights, I personally believe the car is still less than 3300lbs, but not by a lot. I'd put it at 3250 if I had to guess. Then again it depends on exactly what options they ended up going with.

Next, we have seen that the Z4 is supposed to make 380hp stateside (elsewhere?) due to lack of an emissions particulate filter required in Europe, and maybe it's safe to say the Supra will also make 380hp in the US and 335 in EU. This would also give some credence to the original rumors I had heard of the car being 380hp. We could also discuss overboost, but as said by others, that's more just a stupid marketing term for either cam change or slightly more boost at certain rpm to increase tq.

So, what if the car is 3250 with 380hp? where does that put us in the grand scheme of things? Is 63k still too much?

What if I said the msrp is actually $60k?



(purely hypothetical of course...........)

Yup too much...more like $55-57 for top trim, needs to be well under under the $60K, that is a psychological barrier, and you will move more units lower, which is the goal isnt it?

 

[Fort Saint Elmo]

The fact that a good majority of people are paying $60-$70k now for used MKIV's is a very good sign that they will pay close to $100k for a true modern day brand new Supra (aka GTR competitor)...not a Z4 badged. People said the same thing about the R35 GTR when it was first being released remember...."who will pay $80k for a Nissan???" or "who will pay $80k for a car that gets serviced next to a Versa??? It has proven everyone wrong!! The GTR still sells, and sells pretty damn well considering it's price tag and the economic climate for sports cars in general.

I think what alot of people (including Toyota themselves) are not realizing, is that the MKIV Supra had such an impact on alot of young people in the early 2000's who couldn't afford a MKIV, that alot of those people grew up and are making good money to finally want another car like the MKIV Supra. The whole reason why the Supra name is what it is today, is because people want "THAT" kind of car....a modern day MKIV Supra. Re-branding a BMW a Supra and making people "feel like they are in a Supra" or "capturing the essence of a Supra" doesn't mean shit....those are words from the marketing yuppies. Toyota needs to either build what the people want, or don't build it at all! If the unfortunate truth is that there will never be another car like the MKIV, then that's Toyota's fault for not understanding it's prime audience. However, don't assume it was never possible....and that people wouldn't have paid near $100k for one....because many many would....including me.

If the MKV Supra is anything less than the MKIV Supra in any way, it's "automatically" a failure...no pun intended.

"A good majority of people are paying $60-$70k now for used MKIV's" = Not true. VERY FEW people are paying that. My guess is from 10 to 90 sell at that price every year. And I wouldn't be surprised if most of those were rich speculators taking a flier on something different with what amounts to pocket change for them.

"The GTR still sells, and sells pretty damn well" = Not true. And I don't have to guess. Last year 578 GT-R's sold in the US. The year before it was 698.

There aren't hordes of people waiting to buy a $100,000 Toyota. And there was never a chance this Toyota, co-developed with BMW as a next-gen Z4, was going to be a $100k car. Thankfully. And before you say the MKIV cost $80,000 in today's dollars: it didn't. The original prices and the inflation calculator are both easy enough to find with bing. I did the calculations, they're in my first post if you want to see the results. Along with the woefully low sales numbers. And those sales numbers, along with the current GT-R sales numbers, tell us "what the people want", or at least what they don't want. If the people wanted what the Supra offered back then it wouldn't have sold so pitifully and it wouldn't have been discontinued.

 

[Lexusisf]

I don't think your mind is playing tricks on you.

No matter what toyota wants to do, the effect on lexus would still be considered. With that been said, A 60k supra to me still dont make sense unless Lexus has plans of discontinuing the RC. You have to remember when the MKIV was released there was no SCF/RCF/ISF. Fast forward to today those car limits the potential of the supra.

I will stick to the estimated price that was stated in the interview with Tada. There is no way Toyota would price the supra even 2k less than the RCF and they are both doing 0-60 around 4.5secs and thats with the RCF having backseat, luxurious interior all the mark levinson speakers with a SUB.

The right spec for the supra right now IMO would be this:

Price: 55k(no options) to 60K(fully optioned)
Weight: 3250lb fully optioned
Power: 380HP torque >= 369lbft (hopefully the understated power BMW does plays here)


What if the addition of a sunroof is what add weight to the car. and maybe one of the option would be carbon fiber option like the RCF (Just thinking out loud)

The bubble roof will be carbon it was confirmed earlier...RCF comes in at almost 4100lbs...

 

[Lexusisf]

I just saw that this thread got featured and this rendering was used as a preview. Does that mean these are the closest ones to the real thing?

Dont know, but saw that rendering earlier (RH drive) sure looks sweet!

 

[Jdmuscle]

I don't think your mind is playing tricks on you.

No matter what toyota wants to do, the effect on lexus would still be considered. With that been said, A 60k supra to me still dont make sense unless Lexus has plans of discontinuing the RC. You have to remember when the MKIV was released there was no SCF/RCF/ISF. Fast forward to today those car limits the potential of the supra.

I will stick to the estimated price that was stated in the interview with Tada. There is no way Toyota would price the supra even 2k less than the RCF and they are both doing 0-60 around 4.5secs and thats with the RCF having backseat, luxurious interior all the mark levinson speakers with a SUB.

The right spec for the supra right now IMO would be this:

Price: 55k(no options) to 60K(fully optioned)
Weight: 3250lb fully optioned
Power: 380HP torque >= 369lbft (hopefully the understated power BMW does plays here)


What if the addition of a sunroof is what add weight to the car. and maybe one of the option would be carbon fiber option like the RCF (Just thinking out loud)

A70 did confirm a CF roof a while back.

 

[Lexusisf]

Have any of you tried the new NSX? because for what it is it's as close to the Porsche 918 Hybrid Super car without paying that price tag. when you think of it like that it's a fricken bargain. Remember this thing has on occasion and it's still debated, beaten a Tesla P100D in a drag race. It's an amazing car, and I can see why they priced it like that. Honda knew it wasn't going to sell in large numbers, the discounting and they're sitting and not selling is more of the Dealer's issues they marked that thing up so high, and now that all the bad press rolled out it's discounting.

NSX is an awesome car! try it if you get the chance it will make more sense then

No question it is an awesome and beautiful car, but they just completely mis-understood the market and therefore cannot demand the silly price they ask for it, there is a reason sales are low...

Toyota take note, and dont make this mistake!

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