New (Unconfirmed) Details and Specifications of US-Spec MKV Supra:

Would you consider a single trim, 350hp, 3300lbs/1500kg luxury A90 Supra at $60k+?


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HKz

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If Toyota turns there back on the "heavy" enthusiast they would have missed the boat completely with this car.

Toyota doesn't need any more help in selling their brand, people already know and love them for their reliability. They are marketing this car as a Halo and the spec requirements should match this. No Excuses or Compromises.
Doesn't need help? I beg to differ...the automotive industry is changing big time, there is no guarantee that Toyota stays where they are..and being complacent, which is sort of what you're suggesting with "any more help", is the worst thing to do in any business. Toyota still thinks they can capture their core customers on top of attracting some non-hardcore enthusiasts hence why their entire Lexus lineup has shifted towards a more sporty image and their Toyota models are following suit (Corolla hatch, Camry, Avalon).

Think @metzger mentioned this in the other thread, the hardcore enthusiasts will still get their hands on the car to strip it down and make it into a beast that we'll see on plenty of YT channels. Unfortunately in the end, the crying folks will be a minority while the "light" enthusiasts will be raving to their friends that they have the Supra.
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Noble713

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Hmm, that why many are so upset, because it get an unreliable BMW (euro) engine and all luxury stuff that adds weight and gives all the maintenance headaches.
I'm quick to throw shade on Euro maintenance but I genuinely think BMW struck gold with the B58. I'd like to see the same basic engine design but with accessories made by Denso or another big Japanese supplier who designs parts with the longest MTBF (Mean Time Before Failure) possible. Then we get Toyota reliability on parts that the Germans would otherwise get wrong, but we get a car that is higher-performing and more dynamic than Toyota typically aims for.

like the Corolla is a Mazda 3 with Toyota badge.
Now *THAT* I didn't know....
 

LEG1T

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Doesn't need help? I beg to differ...the automotive industry is changing big time, there is no guarantee that Toyota stays where they are..and being complacent, which is sort of what you're suggesting with "any more help", is the worst thing to do in any business. Toyota still thinks they can capture their core customers on top of attracting some non-hardcore enthusiasts hence why their entire Lexus lineup has shifted towards a more sporty image and their Toyota models are following suit (Corolla hatch, Camry, Avalon).

Think @metzger mentioned this in the other thread, the hardcore enthusiasts will still get their hands on the car to strip it down and make into a beast that we'll see on plenty of YT channels. Unfortunately in the end, the crying folks will be a minority while the "light" enthusiasts will be raving to their friends that they have the Supra.
Complacency would be giving "light" enthusiast a car that misses the mark for true enthusiasts.

I don't know if by Hardcore enthusiasts you mean shops, or people with disposable income, but this is out of touch with the "Supra Buyer"

The Supra buyer is one that wants something out the box good. Not something that needs to be torn down and rebuilt, that's absurd to thing that tearing a car down as you say makes you hardcore. It doesn't.

Someone like myself is not buying a car to void the warranty on day 2 to make the car what it should of been on day 1.

Good money doesn't chase bad for me sorry.
 

PerformanceSound

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If Toyota turns there back on the "heavy" enthusiast they would have missed the boat completely with this car.

Toyota doesn't need any more help in selling their brand, people already know and love them for their reliability. They are marketing this car as a Halo and the spec requirements should match this. No Excuses or Compromises.
Precisely! I totally agree with you! LEG1T you are absolutely right!....this car was suppose to be a "Halo car", a "hero car to save the brands sports car image." This is why I am having a difficult time understanding what the purpose of this car is, or who it is aimed at??? Based on the "rumors" or specs by Guff and AT70, I don't understand where the "Halo" or "Hero" points are? We (the tuners, tracksters, etc...) enthusiasts should be the target market. If not, why the hell did Toyota bring the FT-1 concept to Supra meets in Vegas?...or Cars & Coffee meets?
 

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All of that said.......I don't plan on selling/trading in my MkIV Supra for a MKV anytime soon, if ever. QUOTE]

I don't think anyone with an MKIV is going to trade it in for an MKV regardless of the specs. I don't know why people keep saying this LOL. Were that many people panning on trading their car in even if the MKV checked every box that you wanted?
 

HKz

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Complacency would be giving "light" enthusiast a car that misses the mark for true enthusiasts.

I don't know if by Hardcore enthusiasts you mean shops, or people with disposable income, but this is out of touch with the "Supra Buyer"

The Supra buyer is one that wants something out the box good. Not something that needs to be torn down and rebuilt, that's absurd to thing that tearing a car down as you say makes you hardcore. It doesn't.

Someone like myself is not buying a car to void the warranty on day 2 to make the car what it should of been on day 1.

Good money doesn't chase bad for me sorry.
I'm still not sure how you're looking at it.

Hardcore automotive enthusiast = person that truly understands automobiles, drives his car hard, works on his own car, probably drives/loves stick, etc. This is in contrast to a light enthusiast who is like my friend who went from the Prius to the F Type. He doesn't really understand how his car works, has never done his own oil change and he doesn't ever push his car hard but he totally knows all the "famous" brands & models. From a purely business standpoint, which group do you think is larger? Pretty sure the latter.

...that bolded part is quite unlike what has been said on this forum. Think the hardcore enthusiasts here want this to be a beast out of the box AND be a tuning monster.
 

PerformanceSound

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The Supra buyer is one that wants something out the box good. Not something that needs to be torn down and rebuilt, that's absurd to thing that tearing a car down as you say makes you hardcore. It doesn't.

Someone like myself is not buying a car to void the warranty on day 2 to make the car what it should of been on day 1.
Exactly! The main reason I have not purchased a $60k-$70k MKIV TT Supra is because it's not new...It's old, out of warranty, and will require another $15k-$20k to get it the way I want it. This is why I have been looking at GTR's....not because im a fanboy, but because out of the box, it has a report card good enough for me to justify it's ~$100k price tag as a new car. One would be nuts to buy a MKV Supra to rip it apart right away to make 1000HP. That will take time, just like the MKIV's....1000HP happened at least 15years later. That doesn't mean the enthusiasts shouldn't buy them....or the tuners shouldn't buy them. Right now, based on the info we know, I can't justify the MKV Supra's ~$60k price tag.
 

LEG1T

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I'm still not sure how you're looking at it.

Hardcore automotive enthusiast = person that truly understands automobiles, drives his car hard, works on his own car, probably drives/loves stick, etc. This is in contrast to a light enthusiast who is like my friend who went from the Prius to the F Type. He doesn't really understand how his car works, has never done his own oil change and he doesn't ever push his car hard but he totally knows all the "famous" brands & models. From a purely business standpoint, which group do you think is larger? Pretty sure the latter.

...that bolded part is quite unlike what has been said on this forum. Think the hardcore enthusiasts here want this to be a beast out of the box AND be a tuning monster.
Like a head on collision before it happens, I see the contrast.

What I'm simply saying is that the car should not be designed to disappoint enthusiast and make people who doesn't understand how cars work happy. You seem to be saying that enthusiast are out-numbered therefore the car should be built to make people who don't care about cars happy.

THAT is Absurd!


Exactly! The main reason I have not purchased a $60k-$70k MKIV TT Supra is because it's not new...It's old, out of warranty, and will require another $15k-$20k to get it the way I want it. This is why I have been looking at GTR's....not because im a fanboy, but because out of the box, it has a report card good enough for me to justify it's ~$100k price tag as a new car. One would be nuts to buy a MKV Supra to rip it apart right away to make 1000HP. That will take time, just like the MKIV's....1000HP happened at least 15years later. That doesn't mean the enthusiasts should buy them....or the tuners shouldn't buy them. Right now, based on the info we know, I can't justify the MKV Supra's ~$60k price tag. Until Toyota does something about it, other cars (primarily the GTR) top of my list.
And Bingo, this man gets it !

I always can count on a few, @Jdmuscle @PerformanceSound we think alike.
 

Noble713

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Complacency would be giving "light" enthusiast a car that misses the mark for true enthusiasts.

I don't know if by Hardcore enthusiasts you mean shops, or people with disposable income, but this is out of touch with the "Supra Buyer"

The Supra buyer is one that wants something out the box good. Not something that needs to be torn down and rebuilt, that's absurd to thing that tearing a car down as you say makes you hardcore. It doesn't.

Someone like myself is not buying a car to void the warranty on day 2 to make the car what it should of been on day 1.

Good money doesn't chase bad for me sorry.
This actually makes me think that......I don't know ANY "car guys" who buy cars brand new. Not one. Even the late 30's defense contractor types making $150k/yr bought their R35 GT-R's or their BMW 6 series used. One in particular had an Evo 7 for a daily....and an 1100hp RB26-swapped Silvia S15 for drag racing, which he replaced with the GT-R. I don't think that guy, or anyone else I know, would consider anything "out of the box good". If I ever buy a Lamborghini Huracan Performante, I'd probably spend the first weekend looking in the engine bay for stuff to upgrade, short of going twin turbos.

So I really have no idea what kind of person is moving these cars off the lot new, and I was too young to know original MkIV Supra buyers either. I guess this is an interesting insight.
 

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I don't think anyone with an MKIV is going to trade it in for an MKV regardless of the specs. I don't know why people keep saying this LOL. Were that many people panning on trading their car in even if the MKV checked every box that you wanted?
I'm a SLIGHT exception because I bought my Supra for RIDICULOUSLY cheap ($800) and when I'm finished will probably have a 600hp car @ ~$20k total invested. But for guys who have VERY clean high-value cars with very little mods? Maybe they want something newer. I think a manual trans, 450hp MkV @ <$60k would probably get more than a few MkIV owners to upgrade. If I thought I could sell my Supra for >$30k.....yeah, I would upgrade to a MkV for factory specs like that.
 

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Like a head on collision before it happens, I see the contrast.

What I'm simply saying is that the car should not be designed to disappoint enthusiast and make people who doesn't understand how cars work happy. You seem to be saying that enthusiast are out-numbered therefore the car should be built to make people who don't care about cars happy.

THAT is Absurd!




And Bingo, this man gets it !

I always can count on a few, @Jdmuscle @PerformanceSound we think alike.
I am not saying it should pander to such a crowd. I'm on your team as I want this thing to be awesome just like most posters here but I've accepted the terms Toyota has taken to get to this stage and I'm coming to terms with understanding the specs & price. The most realistic explanation is that they are indeed pandering to that particular crowd. Think most of us here are closer to the "hardcore" enthusiast bracket so it is only natural we're going to feel left out but like I said, I'm sure there will be plenty of hardcore enthusiasts with a lot of money and time to burn who will strip them right away and slap in a stick and so Toyota will look at this as a win.

I don't think that guy, or anyone else I know, would consider anything "out of the box good".
exactly, so the hardcore enthusiasts out there will turn it into what they want either way..
 
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twntrbo03'

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Exactly! The main reason I have not purchased a $60k-$70k MKIV TT Supra is because it's not new...It's old, out of warranty, and will require another $15k-$20k to get it the way I want it.


What exactly do you want to do that will require another $15-$20K? Most of the Supras that are going for $60K right now are flawless! I totally understand the "not new" part and Toyota did screw us by discontinuing every damn part for the MKIV, but unless you are looking to turn your car into a 1000whp car, I don't think you'll be spending that much money. I wish Toyota would have followed Nissans recipe for success with the GTR and trickled down some tech from the LFA... instant winning combo right there
 

LEG1T

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This actually makes me think that......I don't know ANY "car guys" who buy cars brand new. Not one. Even the late 30's defense contractor types making $150k/yr bought their R35 GT-R's or their BMW 6 series used. One in particular had an Evo 7 for a daily....and an 1100hp RB26-swapped Silvia S15 for drag racing, which he replaced with the GT-R. I don't think that guy, or anyone else I know, would consider anything "out of the box good". If I ever buy a Lamborghini Huracan Performante, I'd probably spend the first weekend looking in the engine bay for stuff to upgrade, short of going twin turbos.

So I really have no idea what kind of person is moving these cars off the lot new, and I was too young to know original MkIV Supra buyers either. I guess this is an interesting insight.
Bingo, and this is why this is huge for us...

Think of it this way.In Pure Form.

What makes the cars, houses, jobs, we all love and want all good? Foundation or support system the very fiber for which it's built upon.

You see in order for a car to be good, it has to have a "Good Foundation"

Once the foundation is strong the rest will come, what were shooting for is a good base to ensure the cars long term success and longevity.

Do I mod cars hell yes, I would be contradicting myself if I said otherwise, however cars should not have to be modified in order for them to be great. You see after years of selling a good base, the Supra would have a longer thriving life cycle and this will ensure the cars continued success. Meaning a car that A- The car will be around long enough to "Mod" with mfg support in parts, etc.. and B- Would have a community of loving owners and enthusiasts to further push and make the car great.

Hence what contributed for the Supra MKIV success to this day! (it stood the test of time)

Now fast forward to today, many of us are older and make more money and can now have the opportunity to purchase our dream car as a child brand new!! You see why this is huge? The other stuff has been tested, proven, works, etc.. We are already jumping high by dropping big money on something new, you see? We want it to be good not just good enough, not just ok, But everything we have been dreaming up & love that made the old one special.

That is all.

Hope that helps to make more sense of this all. Just a little...
 

HKz

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Bingo, and this is why this is huge for us...
Why bingo? Aren't you are contradicting yourself a little bit?

The Supra buyer is one that wants something out the box good. Not something that needs to be torn down and rebuilt, that's absurd to thing that tearing a car down as you say makes you hardcore. It doesn't.

Someone like myself is not buying a car to void the warranty on day 2 to make the car what it should of been on day 1.
@Noble713 is suggesting such enthusiasts don't care about warranties and how good it is from the box, they'll turn it into whatever monster they want. The truth is, much of the Supra's brand image has been twisted & created by big tuner projects, not necessarily from the stock model.
 

LEG1T

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Why bingo? Aren't you are contradicting yourself a little bi



@Noble713 is suggesting such enthusiasts don't care about warranties and how good it is from the box, they'll turn it into whatever monster they want. The truth is, much of the Supra's brand image has been twisted & created by big tuner projects, not necessarily from the stock model.
No, check it out.. Bingo because... I think he's correct in saying that most of his friends are used to buying used, but this is the car for many that could be the shift where those that bought only used is considering buying new and out the box. I know for one this is case for myself and I think JDM & Performance share these sentiments.

I think anyone that thinks enthusiasts don't care about warranty is incorrect. Period.

They might not care if the car is old already, but if the car is brand new you can get bet your bottom dollar they do.

And in regards to Lamborghini Performante, that's on a completely different level of buyer all together.
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