The MKIV vs MKV Thread

[Supra21]

I think people are missing the point as to why the Mk5 is a disappointment. Especially when compared to the Mk4

First of all the argument that it’s quicker is a moot point. Of course it would be after 25+ years. the fact it’s so little improved is the real issue.

Second people mention price. In 1993 the MkIV cost $40k it outperformed the Ferrari 348 at $122k and the Porsche 911 at $70k

The new supra is priced more than cars that outperform it.

These are just some of the reasons this car doesn’t live up to the original.

It breaks no barriers the original did at all.

Think about what you just said...they competed with Ferrari in the 90s...since then, all Ferrari has done was place R&D into the sole development of their supercars and, now, Hypercars...they are leagues beyond where they were in the 90s.
The reality is, there's a different competition nowadays, and Ferrari is on a level that will not be sought after from the likes of Toyota. It's just not realistic!

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[DesmoSD]

I understand what you mean, but at the same time back when the FRS first appeared everyone said no one was going to by a $25k Scion over a Mustang or Camaro. Toyota North America's sales traget was 20,000 units.

2013
US: 18,327
Canda: 1,825
Total: 20,152

The MKV is for a completely different target group then the FR-S/BRZ. Comparing it's sales figures is irrelevant since it's almost double the price. I heard that the 1500 Launch Editions have been accounted for. Perhaps those are dealers that scooped them up to put in the show room/mark up. If anything, the MKV should not fall under the same sales downward spiral as the 86. Only time will tell.

Scion
86 / FR-S
2014: 14,062
2015: 10,507
2016: 7,457
2017: 6,846
2018: 4,133

 

[2JZ-No-Sh*t]

The MKV is for a completely different target group then the FR-S/BRZ. Comparing it's sales figures is irrelevant since it's almost double the price. I heard that the 1500 Launch Editions have been accounted for. Perhaps those are dealers that scooped them up to put in the show room/mark up. If anything, the MKV should not fall under the same sales downward spiral as the 86. Only time will tell.

Scion
86 / FR-S
2014: 14,062
2015: 10,507
2016: 7,457
2017: 6,846
2018: 4,133

I think you missed what I was trying to said. I was merely just giving an example of Toyota meeting their sales target when the internet said it was impossible. Agree, time will time.

 

[DesmoSD]

I think you missed what I was trying to said. I was merely just giving an example of Toyota meet their sales target when the internet said it was impossible. Agree, time will time.

I did understand the point you've made but you're implying that the MKV could also do the impossible and meet it's sales goal, right?

 

[twntrbo03']

I understand what you mean, but at the same time back when the FRS first appeared everyone said no one was going to by a $25k Scion over a Mustang or Camaro. Toyota North America's sales traget was 20,000 units.

2013
US: 18,327
Canda: 1,825
Total: 20,152

I think the first year or second year will be the highest selling year. After that, unless Toyota does some updates in the styling/power range department, I think it will suffer.

 

[2JZ-No-Sh*t]

I did understand the point you've made but you're implying that the MKV could also do the impossible and meet it's sales goal, right?

Let's back track for a second. First we don't know for sure what their sales goal is. 1k a month was posted by someone over at SF. I also have my doubts, but assuming that is true anything is possible. Look no further at what is sitting in the oval office.

I think the first year or second year will be the highest selling year. After that, unless Toyota does some updates in the styling/power range department, I think it will suffer.

Yes, but that pretty much happens with most niche products (GT-R, 370z, LC, RC, 86, Z4, SL, SLC, and etc).

 

[Captain_Kirk]

I hope Toyota does something like this.

 

[DesmoSD]

Let's back track for a second. First we don't know for sure what their sales goal is. 1k a month was posted by someone over at SF. I also have my doubts, but assuming that is true anything is possible. Look no further at what is sitting in the oval office.

Haha, let's put politics aside because that's a whole different discussion.

You've mentioned 1K/month and IIRC, the 1500 LE's are already accounted for. I'm going to assume they are the dealerships putting them on the showroom floor, maybe with a mark up. I want to remain optimistic as well but given the numerous bad press, I'm more inclined to differ. Of course, I don't mind being proven wrong.

Z4
2018: 4
2017: 502
2016: 1.187
2015: 1,829

Supra
1993: 2,901
1994: 3,405
1995: 2,266

 

[twntrbo03']

I hope Toyota does something like this.

I'm almost positive Top Gear or Grand Touring will do something like this on their show! They can even borrow one of my cars if they need a MKIV haha

 

[Therealist]

Think about what you just said...they competed with Ferrari in the 90s...since then, all Ferrari has done was place R&D into the sole development of their supercars and, now, Hypercars...they are leagues beyond where they were in the 90s.
The reality is, there's a different competition nowadays, and Ferrari is on a level that will not be sought after from the likes of Toyota. It's just not realistic!

Nissan managed the GTR and their only performance showcase was the Skyline GTR and they went a completely different direction with the power plant and nailed it. That’s a super car and it went to that from the skyline. Toyota could have done the same surely?

 

[justbake]

Nissan managed the GTR and their only performance showcase was the Skyline GTR and they went a completely different direction with the power plant and nailed it. That’s a super car and it went to that from the skyline. Toyota could have done the same surely?

Did they nail it though?

They could have went that direction, surely. But the sales aren't there for Nissan either. If they were we would have seen more than just minor updates after 11 model years (11 for the 370z as well if we are talking about their sports cars all together)

 

[scoates]

Nissan managed the GTR and their only performance showcase was the Skyline GTR and they went a completely different direction with the power plant and nailed it. That’s a super car and it went to that from the skyline. Toyota could have done the same surely?

Who's to say it won't? The GTR had similar hate coming for it at launch but over the years it has gained power and aftermarket mods have made it what it is now. Sure it had more power from the get-go but it also weighed 240kg over the Supra. Its much harder and more expensive to lose weight than add power.

Toyota have said that Supra will be revised throughout the life cycle so I wouldn't rule out incremental power upgrades and chassis tweaks. Remember the GTR launched in 2007, it has 12 years over the Supra. Give the Supra 12 years and I bet it will be a monster.

 

[2JZ-No-Sh*t]

Haha, let's put politics aside because that's a whole different discussion.

You've mentioned 1K/month and IIRC, the 1500 LE's are already accounted for. I'm going to assume they are the dealerships putting them on the showroom floor, maybe with a mark up. I want to remain optimistic as well but given the numerous bad press, I'm more inclined to differ. Of course, I don't mind being proven wrong.

Z4
2018: 4
2017: 502
2016: 1.187
2015: 1,829

Supra
1993: 2,901
1994: 3,405
1995: 2,266

Agree

I have no idea about the limited edition. If we're talking about the real press, the early test drive were mostly positive. Personally, I don't really take broke millennials on youtube seriously. I'm a skeptic as well. We need an official statement from Toyota regarding sales goals. We also have to keep in mind that the A90 is still cheaper than both of those cars when inflation comes into play. Either way I agree with the comment from BRX. Toyota is going to sell more A90s than A80s. If we take Europe for example, Toyota only moved 1698 units. From what we have learned from our EU members is that most (if not all) 900 units have been called for. There is also some confusion from UK members. Some are saying that the UK is not part of the 900 club, and that they are getting 3xx outside of the 900 club.

http://mkiv.supras.org.nz/specs.htm#PRODUCTION

 

[DesmoSD]

Agree

I have no idea about the limited edition. If we're talking about the real press, the early test drive were mostly positive. Personally, I don't really take broke millennials on youtube seriously. I'm a skeptic as well. We need an official statement from Toyota regarding sales goals. We also have to keep in mind that the A90 is still cheaper than both of those cars when inflation comes into play. Either way I agree with the comment from BRX. Toyota is going to sell more A90s than A80s. If we take Europe for example, Toyota only moved units. From what we have learned from our EU members is that most (if not all) 900 units have been called for. There is also some confusion from UK members. Some are saying that the UK is not part of the 900 club, and that they are getting 3xx outside of the 900 club.

http://mkiv.supras.org.nz/specs.htm#PRODUCTION

That was an exclusive special invite test drive like what most manufactures do. I would pay more attention to the unbias test reviews.

By the magnitude of how many A90's are being manufactured, the A90 could and should outsell the A80. It only sold 11,239 during a span of 6 yrs. If not, it'll be a colossal failure.

http://mkiv.com/specifications/sales_numbers/retail_sales.html

 

[johnny_10196]

Nissan managed the GTR and their only performance showcase was the Skyline GTR and they went a completely different direction with the power plant and nailed it. That’s a super car and it went to that from the skyline. Toyota could have done the same surely?

They could, but that was never the goal of the Supra. Toyota wants a some what afford car so more people can have the chance to obtain one. Look at the LC for example. It's too damn expensive and has not even came close to it's sales goal.

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2015/10/usa-canada-lexus-lc500-sales-stats-monthly-yearly/

2017- 1,731
2018- 1,979

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2017/03/can-sports-car-sell-well-2017-lexus-lc-high-hopes/

“The 400 per-month sales goal for the LC was determined by numerous factors that reflect the strength of the LC and the Lexus brand,”

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