👣 Official: Toyota Announces Manual Transmission Supra!

[Turbro]

Jesus that just makes me hate Californian more... so glad I fucking left 20 years ago. Why do they care so god damn much about a car, fix your fucking homeless problems first maybe, or you know... the meth problems... morons run that state.

I bet lots of california modded car owners end up with Montana LLC in no time

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[A70TTR]

It's cool as far as everything you could ever need business wise being around LA, but I generally avoid it when possible. Fun to visit, but you couldn't pay me to live there...

 

[ToyoBMW]

It's cool as far as everything you could ever need business wise being around LA, but I generally avoid it when possible. Fun to visit, but you couldn't pay me to live there...

We have everything in California

1. Fast Cars
2. Good Food
3. Sexy Women
4. Great weather
5. and if you work for the local government, you can make $100000 a year and another $150000 in overtime pay (where you're actually not working).

What's not to like?

 

[A70TTR]

1-3 aren't limited to Cali... 4 is debatable, but weather is pretty decent there year round.

but if you love an authoritarian state that will tax you to death, then it's for you

 

[KahnBB6]

It's a great place for many other reasons. I've lived and worked there for many years and will continue to. There is no shortage of great sports cars, hot rods and basically any cool vehicle you can think of there and people who are diehard gearheads.

California and Los Angeles specifically are amazing places to live if it suits your style, career options, preference for things you can do all around the state, etc. But there are some tradeoffs and the smog testing thing for cars is one of them.

Among many other reasons, the way the smoggy air there just doesn't really *move* is one very big reason why they're so strict with emissions regulations and testing. Smog there was really, really BAD by the 60's and 70's (as in the air used to actually look like Beijing's does now) and as a result they got aggressive about it.

What I do not like, understand or accept is them making OBD1 and older (2000 and older) testing harder with fewer dyno roller test stations available (and also not as much OBD1 training for the techs who run them now).... and measures such as the ones above where even if all you do is leave the basic engine tune parameters alone but get the car's ECU to play nice with a manual transmission swap you can be flagged. Over a mere transmission preference.

Or the whole CARB approved aftermarket parts racket (thanks to Edelbrock notably) where a $30 K&N cone air filter in the "approved" version for your car (if such a part was approved) is now $100-$250 just so you can get the same thing as the generic version but now with a cute little sticker that has an E.O. number on it that matches your year, make, make, model and trim for that car. That's always been a little much.

There is still a way to get a manual swapped 2020 A90 Supra to play nice with Cali smog. It would involve Sean Morris of TopRank, G&K Auto, state approved lab testing of the "modified" engine configuration and around $11k+ additional invested just for that. As the guy in that other forum quote said, he was able to do it with a stock R33 GT-R. It would be possible with an A90 3.0L manual swap also as it runs MUCH cleaner and has a universe of difference in terms of fine computer control and engine sensor monitoring from the factory compared to 90's 2JZ's, 1JZ's and RB's and their overall design (apart from the power generation and power holding they are all well known for, lol).

Anyway none of this has become an issue just yet but the earlier post on how the ECU will more than likely be scanned for code differences from stock seemed like a relevant thing to bring up for CA MKV enthusiasts. And that they seem to be focusing that on all the popular models that people usually tune...

All the more reason that Toyota and BMW really need to listen to the customer demand for such niche two-seater sportscars and just release their own factory manual MKV and Z4 3.0L's. I'd certainly like to own an MKV myself and it will *have* to be manual one way or another and will *have* to be registered in California one way or another, so...

 

[mkivalex]

Damn man you always have such long responses lol!

 

[KahnBB6]

Eh, well... it’s more that some things relate to other things and there I am

 

[AsupramkvC]

As much as the enthusiasts crave for a manual transmission Supra, if Toyota doesn’t have a good business case to build it, for sure they won’t.

 

[KahnBB6]

For what it’s worth, while at my local Toyota dealer for service today I popped over to a customer’s MKV to chat with the owner and a technician and sales guy whom I know.

The sales fellow was firm that we’re getting a manual transmission option on the four cylinder Supra come 2021. I pressed him on this and he said that he’d not only seen a pre-production Supra 4cyl turbo manual in left hand drive at a recent dealer meeting at Toyota’s HQ in Texas but that he drove it himself. I again asked him to confirm to me that this was a LHD chassis and not a RHD. LHD was reiterated.

Pressing further I asked about whether anything was discussed at that meeting show and tell regarding a 3.0 B58 manual variant. He described that situation as not being a “no” but just still an up-in-the-air thing at this point (at least when he was there). His emphasis was that the main concern was for overall potential manual B58 MKV sales.

Seems to be in line with what Ichitaka recently mentioned regarding a 3.0 manual possibility (ie: not a “no” but still just a possibility for now).

He also mentioned that at some point BMW gave Toyota a completely de-badged S58 to throw into an MKV prototype body to play with (which I believe was mentioned in some older previous thread by someone) but that by now it was scheduled for destruction if it had not been destroyed already.

BMW would apparently want quite a hefty sum to allow the S58 to be included just as an MKV option.

I have no idea how accurate the S58 info he heard is at this point (and yes, I know how we generally view dealer info vs higher level info) but on the note of a manual MKV let alone one for the USA it was nice to hear that some variant is in the pipeline for us.

I didn’t ask about any power figure bumps to the B48 four cylinder and he didn’t mention anything about power figures.

I take all of this with a grain of salt until something concrete and tangible shows up but felt it might be worth mentioning as further possible confirmation of what has been hinted at recently here.

 

[ToyoBMW]

I can see a Supra 4banger turbo for $40000, which is a high price for a 4banger turbo. That would kill the next Toyota 86 at $25K-$35K without a turbo though. Maybe they'll call it the Celica

 

[mkivalex]

I also heard from a sales manager a manual 4cyl was coming for 2021.

 

[Twisted Tuning]

For what it’s worth, while at my local Toyota dealer for service today I popped over to a customer’s MKV to chat with the owner and a technician and sales guy whom I know.

The sales fellow was firm that we’re getting a manual transmission option on the four cylinder Supra come 2021. I pressed him on this and he said that he’d not only seen a pre-production Supra 4cyl turbo manual in left hand drive at a recent dealer meeting at Toyota’s HQ in Texas but that he drove it himself. I again asked him to confirm to me that this was a LHD chassis and not a RHD. LHD was reiterated.

Pressing further I asked about whether anything was discussed at that meeting show and tell regarding a 3.0 B58 manual variant. He described that situation as not being a “no” but just still an up-in-the-air thing at this point (at least when he was there). His emphasis was that the main concern was for overall potential manual B58 MKV sales.

Seems to be in line with what Ichitaka recently mentioned regarding a 3.0 manual possibility (ie: not a “no” but still just a possibility for now).

He also mentioned that at some point BMW gave Toyota a completely de-badged S58 to throw into an MKV prototype body to play with (which I believe was mentioned in some older previous thread by someone) but that by now it was scheduled for destruction if it had not been destroyed already.

BMW would apparently want quite a hefty sum to allow the S58 to be included just as an MKV option.

I have no idea how accurate the S58 info he heard is at this point (and yes, I know how we generally view dealer info vs higher level info) but on the note of a manual MKV let alone one for the USA it was nice to hear that some variant is in the pipeline for us.

I didn’t ask about any power figure bumps to the B48 four cylinder and he didn’t mention anything about power figures.

I take all of this with a grain of salt until something concrete and tangible shows up but felt it might be worth mentioning as further possible confirmation of what has been hinted at recently here.

i personally don't see BMW giving their M powerplant away to use in the Supra. if they do, it'd be the first time in history BMW allowed another company to use their M division stuff. could be wrong though

 

[JasonO]

i personally don't see BMW giving their M powerplant away to use in the Supra. if they do, it'd be the first time in history BMW allowed another company to use their M division stuff. could be wrong though

I agree with you there. Nothing make sense with the other rumors and BMWs history with their premium power plants. Toyota could get desperate with the C8 coming out, but I think 2022+ is more likely for that kind of move.

The rumors on the 2021 output increase is 40 hp give or take. That is well within the B58’s capabilities.

If the Supra does get the M power plant, I can’t see the price staying remotely the same as BMW will make Toyota pay. I also cannot see that premium being worth the rumored 40 hp increase if that is how Toyota is getting it. I’d rather self insure myself in the B58 and throw a couple grand at it to get double the 40 hp increase vs the 10k premium I could see an S58 Supra carrying.

I’d believe a manual 4 cyl before the S58.

 

[KahnBB6]

^^ They way the S58’s availability has been discussed I’d expect it to cost MUCH more than just a $10k increase if offered in the MKV.

I’d expect closer to $85k-$95k MSRP for that.

There’s supposed to already be a B58 variant (B58D?) in the pipeline that will cover the horsepower bump to 380hp or so.

If the four cylinder manual MKV bound for the U.S. gets bumped to at least 280hp (280whp) with some tuning room left in it then that will be a good variant on its own.... and leave the aftermarket more to work with to convert 3.0 B58 MKV’s to manual.

 

[Supra Man]

“We’ve certainly made no offer to supply the engine to Toyota—and no request has been made, as far as I know. But it’s an interesting idea, if unlikely for now. It would be a lot for us to give away, you might say. But I’d never say never.”

“As a rule, we don’t offer BMW M engines to third parties because we consider them such a strength of our cars,” -Markus Flasch

i had hopes that the s58 was eventually going into the supra but after some more thinking and reading what Flasch had said awhile back.. i now highly doubt they would give the s58 to toyota. That is just too big of a hit for bmw if they shared their M engines.. really hope im wrong

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