2023 Toyota GR Supra Manual Review Thread!!!

ApexMissingApe

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A manual targa top supra is the dream. Haven't even taken delivery of my A91-MT yet, but if they come out with a targa in a year or so, I might be back at square 1 trying to hunt down another allocation.
I won’t trade my AT in just for the manual, but I’d run to the dealer in a heartbeat to trade in on a manual transmission with targa.
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AHP

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I can't see a targa ever happening; there's no way to fit in the hear hatch.
 

MA617M

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Given the whole song and dance that was made about the chassis stiffness and use of materials, and how this would have affected the safety cell - I just can't see a targa happening.

As previously mentioned, the Supra has historically been a GT, with each generation (except A70, it was pure GT) moving closer and closer to sports-car.... hence a targa making sense on the A70/A80.

I just can't see it happening on the A90, given the above and the focus on 'sports car' over GT.
 

Supraboi7

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Given the whole song and dance that was made about the chassis stiffness and use of materials, and how this would have affected the safety cell - I just can't see a targa happening.

As previously mentioned, the Supra has historically been a GT, with each generation (except A70, it was pure GT) moving closer and closer to sports-car.... hence a targa making sense on the A70/A80.

I just can't see it happening on the A90, given the above and the focus on 'sports car' over GT.
Ugh i neeeeeeeed the targa!
 

MA617M

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I mean, when this is a part of the marketing material - have a look at that 'safety cell' of high strength steel. They aren't going to want to compromise that, after a major premise of the car was built around it.

mechanism02.jpg
 

BMWAF

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I mean, when this is a part of the marketing material - have a look at that 'safety cell' of high strength steel. They aren't goin View attachment 75720 g to want to compromise that, after a major premise of the car was built around it.

mechanism02.jpg
😂 It's just marketing. They'll have flash new diagrams to show how they have accounted for the targa's assumed reduced safety and we'll all rejoice. And it will even be x% more rigid too. Don't believe the hype!
 

JP_

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Review from the UK here with a few paragraphs about handling changes:

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-revie...ives/toyota-gr-supra-30-manual-2022-uk-review

As for the chassis tweaks, they do make the Supra usefully more throttle-adjustable and precise. Come fractionally out of the accelerator mid-corner, for example, and the long nose will tuck in gently and your line will tighten to satisfying effect. The original car did that but not to this extent.

The steering response feels notably more alert too, though only perhaps to those intimately familiar with the original MY19 GR Supra. With that car there was always slight sense of delay as your commands on the steering wheel were fed forward. Now, with tighter body control at the front axle, direction changes happen faster and more in unison between driver and front axle. This improvement is particularly welcome because it give you that more confidence in what is a very fast car in the right circumstances.

However, the changes don’t fundamentally alter the Supra's gentle understeer balance or fully placate back axle, with still gets agitated during cornering on less than perfectly smooth roads, where it can bob along a little awkwardly. Unsurprisingly this effect is particularly obvious with the softer of the two damper settings though the firmer setting doesn't kill it on the spot.

So, while improved, the Supra is still no Cayman-slayer, mostly because it lacks the Porsche's immense composure and its transparent steering. It flows well enough but it's not something that you can really grab by the scruff and attack B-roads with. The DNA remains more GT than sports car.
I don't agree with not being able to attack B roads with it, having done a lot of that... Sounds like they're not brave/confident enough with the car. Otherwise though, minor but positive changes.
 

redfogo

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I was really hoping we would see more reviews from bigger channels but I guess maybe not.
 

s219

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No internal modifications at all. It is a GS6 as it comes, just with a different clutch kit, no sound deadening, and a heavier shift knob. The reason people like it over a standard BMW box is the knob, but if somebody says it doesn't feel anything like a BMW box, they're either lying or haven't driven a BMW manual.
That means Toyota lied again because they themselves said it's a modified box for improved feel. Most critics say it feels notchy and precise but I've yet to hear it feels rubbery.

If you watch the Everyday Driver review(around the 2 minute mark) they said they were hoping it wasn't going to feel like your typical rubbery feeling BMW box and they are happy to report it doesn't. Now these guys have driven tons of cars and many of them BMW.
This lines up with what was known months ago by digging through the parts diagrams (available through BMW, requires paid subscription though). All Toyota did was remove the acoustic package, revise the clutch arrangement, and heavily massage the shifter. The gearbox itself is unchanged.

I think what a lot of people (and reviewers) are missing is that because of the arrangement of the transmission in this platform (and similar RWD BMW models), any feel you get is not going to be about the gearbox. It could have amazing synchro takeup and mechanical feel, or it could suck. Unfortunately all of that is going to be indirect because of the type of shift linkage mechanism that goes in between the gearbox and the driver. What you feel will not be the transmission, it will be the linkage, with the shifter adding the final flavor.

If I dig into my experience with some benchmark MT cars over the years, I would say the Honda S2000 is by far the best "honest" transmission, in the sense that the linkage and shifter is direct and transparent, and allows you to feel what is going on in the gearset. It's among the best arrangements ever.

For #2 I'd peg recent generations of the Porsche Boxter/Cayman, however this is an illusion, because the MT on these cars is cable actuated. What you feel is all about the shifter. It happens to feel fantastic (like a bolt action rifle), but is completely incapable of transmitting much gearbox feel to your hand. I hold this up as an example of what any manufacturer could do to provide a superb shifting experience to the driver even when there isn't a rigid mechanical connection to the transmission.

And at the other end of the spectrum we have mid-engine transverse V8 Ferraris, like the 308 and 328, with their famous gated shifter. These cars have a very nice shifter that connects to the transmission with a rod that passes through the engine oil sump before connecting to the internal shift mechanism in the gearbox. It's a design that is clever and dumb all at the same time. You'd look at this on paper and think it must be fantastic because of a very direct connection between the shifter and gearbox, but in reality it's mediocre at best. People love these cars because of the gated shifter, and that's about the extent of the magic.

So I think Guff's observations are spot on when you consider the gearbox itself, the linkage to the gearbox, and the shifter. Whatever you notice as a driver will be the flavor of the shifter superimposed on top of the same vague linkage that characterizes other BMW platforms. There will be limits to how good this can be. I've never thought the shifting experience was great in the M2/M3/M4, but it's not horrible either. Supra will be different but not necessarily better or worse. In the grand scheme of things it will not be a huge departure. If a reviewer suggests it is, then that tells me they are probably young and inexperienced *or* incapable of deciphering the finer points of MT operation and feel. Some reviewers have one or both of those credentials, some have neither.
 
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Cptnslo

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This lines up with what was known months ago by digging through the parts diagrams (available through BMW, requires paid subscription though). All Toyota did was remove the acoustic package, revise the clutch arrangement, and heavily massage the shifter. The gearbox itself is unchanged.

I think what a lot of people (and reviewers) are missing is that because of the arrangement of the transmission in this platform (and similar RWD BMW models), any feel you get is not going to be about the gearbox. It could have amazing synchro takeup and mechanical feel, or it could suck. Unfortunately all of that is going to be indirect because of the type of shift linkage mechanism that goes in between the gearbox and the driver. What you feel will not be the transmission, it will be the linkage, with the shifter adding the final flavor.

If I dig into my experience with some benchmark MT cars over the years, I would say the Honda S2000 is by far the best "honest" transmission, in the sense that the linkage and shifter is direct and transparent, and allows you to feel what is going on in the gearset. It's among the best arrangements ever.

For #2 I'd peg recent generations of the Porsche Boxter/Cayman, however this is an illusion, because the MT on these cars is cable actuated. What you feel is all about the shifter. It happens to feel fantastic (like a bolt action rifle), but is completely incapable of transmitting much gearbox feel to your hand. I hold this up as an example of what any manufacturer could do to provide a superb shifting experience to the driver even when there isn't a rigid mechanical connection to the transmission.

And at the other end of the spectrum we have mid-engine transverse V8 Ferraris, like the 308 and 328, with their famous gated shifter. These cars have a very nice shifter that connects to the transmission with a rod that passes through the engine oil sump before connecting to the internal shift mechanism in the gearbox. It's a design that is clever and dumb all at the same time. You'd look at this on paper and think it must be fantastic because of a very direct connection between the shifter and gearbox, but in reality it's mediocre at best. People love these cars because of the gated shifter, and that's about the extent of the magic.

So I think Guff's observations are spot on when you consider the gearbox itself, the linkage to the gearbox, and the shifter. Whatever you notice as a driver will be the flavor of the shifter superimposed on top of the same vague linkage that characterizes other BMW platforms. There will be limits to how good this can be. I've never thought the shifting experience was great in the M2/M3/M4, but it's not horrible either. Supra will be different but not necessarily better or worse. In the grand scheme of things it will not be a huge departure. If a reviewer suggests it is, then that tells me they are probably young and inexperienced *or* incapable of deciphering the finer points of MT operation and feel. Some reviewers have one or both of those credentials, some have neither.
How stout are those gearboxes ?
 

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How stout are those gearboxes ?
Very. I know people use the ZF S6-53 (used in f80/g80 and what the supra box is based on) in 1000+ whp builds without much of an issue.


Edit: I've watched a bunch of the manual supra review videos and haven't seen anyone mention a bad clutch pedal feel caused by a clutch delay valve like BMW normally uses. I'm hoping this means toyota had the sense to get rid of it for the supra. Either way it's not usually a big deal to remove the CDV and has made a huge difference on every manual BMW I've had.
 
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I keep seeing reviews of the 2023 with a new stability control system (forget what it's called) designed to reign in the oversteer tendencies. I hope it can be completely defeated, because one of the reasons I want this car is to be less neutral than my Boxster, and kick the tail out on occasion.
 

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I keep seeing reviews of the 2023 with a new stability control system (forget what it's called) designed to reign in the oversteer tendencies. I hope it can be completely defeated, because one of the reasons I want this car is to be less neutral than my Boxster, and kick the tail out on occasion.
I don't think you'll have any problem with that. Go to 28:30 for manual supra drifting action if it doesn't automatically load at that time.

 
 




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