Chris Harris on GR Yaris and Supra.

Captain_Kirk

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But the RC is a pig...
The RC350 is 3,748lbs vs 3,400lbs for the Supra. 348lbs isn't a huge differences in my book. Weight savings could also come with stripping out some of the luxury features, tech, and shorten the the length overall length a tad.

But then everyone would complain about weight and no straight six. Second coming of the GT-R. :p
I think the internet and fanboys would be more upset with the latter.
 

justbake

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If only there was a middle ground to use a codeveloped platform and a Toyota motor. Too bad we only think in binary terms.
 

Captain_Kirk

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If only there was a middle ground to use a codeveloped platform and a Toyota motor. Too bad we only think in binary terms.
Like Mazda and Fiat? That has already also been discussed to death during the early days of the forum. But diehard fanboys would be screaming "no I6, it's not a Supra". As supraboi put it, "second coming of the GTR".
 

justbake

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Like Mazda and Fiat? That has already also been discussed to death during the early days of the forum. Diehard fanboys would be screaming "no I6, it's not a Supra". As supraboi put it, "second coming of the GTR".
Exactly like that. They don't even have to be the same size like the miata and fiata since it is a scalable platform after all, which was also something early rumors alluded too.
 

Red-hat

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Diehard fanboys would be screaming "no I6, it's not a Supra". As supraboi put it, "second coming of the GTR".
Whilst I am sure some vocal fanboys would be outraged online if the A90 had gotten a twin turbo Toyota V6, I suspect actual buyers with the money to drop would be looking at the numbers, and if the numbers were good enough (say 420HP stock, up from 416 in Lexus use), they would soon accept the transition to a V6.

The GT-R is a great example of how car people can accept change... when the the R35 was released and put out such impressive numbers, very few people cared that the old I6 was replaced with a V6. Certainly real buyers with the cash to actually buy one didn’t mind.

The reality is most online fanboy ‘enthusiasts’ are broke and never buy these cars new that they spend hours arguing about. So pleasing them at the expense of actual cashed up potential buyers is pointless. The real question is, would the actual buying demographic of the Supra have accepted a V6? I suspect they would have, especially if they had gotten 420HP stock vs 335-385HP as now.

And maybe Chris Harris would say nicer things about the Supra if it had a Toyota V6 in it... possibly not since he would still pick on the BMW switchgear and infotainment. ;)
 

2JZ-No-Sh*t

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The problem here is that they teased us with a super car, they even brought the FT-1 to SILV. I understand Calty was unaware of what was happening with BMW, but Toyota should have halted their efforts much sooner
They knew since the unveiling in 2014 that a Toyota BMW mash up was happening. Several of the design team members even said a road version would be around 10% smaller and to expect a price tag of $50k-$60k.

I understand the red show car was made larger for stage presence and whatnot. And it could have been too late since the start of the FT1 project to resize it to match a Z4 chassis, but imo Toyota could have made the second graphite concept a little closer to the real deal. Lose the backseats and cut the overall length a bit. Let people down a little easier lol, but instead they made a second concept with only a color change and continue to parade them both around to every event and autoshow for years and continue to give people false hope.
 

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They knew since the unveiling in 2014 that a Toyota BMW mash up was happening. Several of the design team members even said a road version would be around 10% smaller and to expect a price tag of $50k-$60k.

I understand the red show car was made larger for stage presence and whatnot. And it could have been too late since the start of the FT1 project to resize it to match a Z4 chassis, but imo Toyota could have made the second graphite concept a little closer to the real deal. Lose the backseats and cut the overall length a bit. Let people down a little easier lol, but instead they made a second concept with only a color change and continue to parade them both around to every event and autoshow for years and continue to give people false hope.
From this interview it sounds like it was too late to change anything for the red FT-1. I do see your POV. Maybe less people would have been disappointed if Calty had made the second one just a tad more realistic. :dunno:

Were there any concessions that had to get designed out of the production car?

The car got scaled down quite a bit. FT-1 was a big car. One reason was for being on the show car stage. We wanted drama and impact. Motor shows are about theater and creating excitement. But the other reason it was big was we knew the LC500 was coming, and we thought maybe, just maybe, they could build it on that platform. At that time we didn’t know there was any BMW arrangement underway, so the big challenge was how to take FT-1, which was a pretty sizable car, and compress it down to the actual production package that became Supra.
 

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Personally, I think you’ve got issues if you’re basing a car purchase on what a guy or a magazine thinks. I don’t know, maybe I am old school:dunno:
This! / thread...
 

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Whilst I am sure some vocal fanboys would be outraged online if the A90 had gotten a twin turbo Toyota V6, I suspect actual buyers with the money to drop would be looking at the numbers, and if the numbers were good enough (say 420HP stock, up from 416 in Lexus use), they would soon accept the transition to a V6.

The GT-R is a great example of how car people can accept change... when the the R35 was released and put out such impressive numbers, very few people cared that the old I6 was replaced with a V6. Certainly real buyers with the cash to actually buy one didn’t mind.

The reality is most online fanboy ‘enthusiasts’ are broke and never buy these cars new that they spend hours arguing about. So pleasing them at the expense of actual cashed up potential buyers is pointless. The real question is, would the actual buying demographic of the Supra have accepted a V6? I suspect they would have, especially if they had gotten 420HP stock vs 335-385HP as now.

And maybe Chris Harris would say nicer things about the Supra if it had a Toyota V6 in it... possibly not since he would still pick on the BMW switchgear and infotainment. ;)
Similar to the actual outrage now, but the ppl actually buying the car don't care that it's made with BMW parts?
 

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Similar to the actual outrage now, but the ppl actually buying the car don't care that it's made with BMW parts?
Maybe. It's hard to say really, since there are always certain buyers attracted and repelled from a car for various reasons. When we think about what impact not using BMW might have had on the sales of the new Supra we are indulging in a counter-factual hypothetical alternate reality. Maybe it would have sold more, maybe less, maybe the same.

To be honest, I think Toyota did OK in the end, even though I wish it had a Toyota engine. My main gripe with it relates to its driveaway price here in Australia, which I think is higher than many hoped. Many of us were hoping for Mustang GT money here (i.e. 70k AUD) and instead we got BMW M2 money (100k AUD). Given the partnership with BMW is often touted as a cost saving measure to keep the price down, it's a bit odd since a) BMWs are inherently more expensive, use more expensive parts and materials etc and b) made in Austria is inherently more expensive than made in Japan (for Aussies at least - our Japanese made cars are much cheaper than Euro made cars as we have a free trade agreement with Japan).
 

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Maybe. It's hard to say really, since there are always certain buyers attracted and repelled from a car for various reasons. When we think about what impact not using BMW might have had on the sales of the new Supra we are indulging in a counter-factual hypothetical alternate reality. Maybe it would have sold more, maybe less, maybe the same.

To be honest, I think Toyota did OK in the end, even though I wish it had a Toyota engine. My main gripe with it relates to its driveaway price here in Australia, which I think is higher than many hoped. Many of us were hoping for Mustang GT money here (i.e. 70k AUD) and instead we got BMW M2 money (100k AUD). Given the partnership with BMW is often touted as a cost saving measure to keep the price down, it's a bit odd since a) BMWs are inherently more expensive, use more expensive parts and materials etc and b) made in Austria is inherently more expensive than made in Japan (for Aussies at least - our Japanese made cars are much cheaper than Euro made cars as we have a free trade agreement with Japan).
Your forgetting one vital thing.... LST
Luxury sales tax.
 

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It was a cost saving measure in terms of R&D and manufacturing. Remember if Toyota wanted to stick with an Inline 6, they would have to develop a new engine from the ground up. Thats millions of dollars right there. And then they would have to develop a new platform as well. Again, more cost.

From what i've heard, if the car was going to be a toyota only venture, it would have taken 5+ more years before we would have gotten one, and it would probably cost closer to the 80-90k USD price point in order for the company to make money back on a niche car.


BMW aside, a lot of people talk about it driving like a BMW. Well what does a Toyota drive like? An 86? One could argue that its more Subaru than it is a Toyota. Maybe an RFC? Would anyone actually have been happy if this car drove and handled like an RFC? At the end of the day people would just complain that they are paying for an RFC with a Toyota badge. RFC's are nice dont get me wrong, but (from my small time in one a few years back), its not a very engaging vehicle.

And then theres the interior, Toyota interiors arent exactly luxurious, the design language is very JDM in the sense that its not very inspiring. Lexus interiors are known for feeling outdated even in the newest models.

At the end of the day BMW gives us a very good inline 6 that gives us a car well over 400hp at the crank, an interior that is of finer quality than anything in Toyota's lineup, and an actual car to drive at a very competitive price point. I'm so happy that they made this venture. I love BMW and i love Toyota, this couldnt have been a better match in my opinion.
 

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What other NEW car competes with a Supra 3.0 at $50K-$55K?

The pros far outweigh the cons as far as the BMW/Toyota partnership. It's a fine car for $50K-$55K. I read somewhere someone at Toyota said the Supra would have been $100K if Toyota would have done it from the ground up.
 

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What other NEW car competes with a Supra 3.0 at $50K-$55K?

The pros far outweigh the cons as far as the BMW/Toyota partnership. It's a fine car for $50K-$55K. I read somewhere someone at Toyota said the Supra would have been $100K if Toyota would have done it from the ground up.
Closest i can think of is the M240i, but even then the Supra is a much more capable car than the M240i
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