From Supra to G87 M2 or FL5 CTR or GR86/BRZ?

[kaj]

After reading through this thread again, I'd recommend just getting the M2. I think you are subconsciously talking yourself into it by discounting the Supra while also comparing the BMW to two relatively incomparable cars. One is a FWD performance vehicle and the other is a problematic, asthmatic, low-tier sport-ish car that is basically a grown-up Miata, anyway.
And if you actually are cross-shopping a Supra, M2, CTR, and 86 then you haven't really settled on what you want out of a car. In that case, I'd still recommend the M2.
The BMW is the safe bet and least likely to lead to regret.

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[HandShiftedICE]

By looking at the numbers, CTR and GR86 are completely different from Supra and M2. I honestly don't understand how M2 could be more fun than Supra at tracks, from what I hear and read online. Going CTR/GR86, I think there will be many regrets outside of tracking. I'm guessing, many things feel cheap.

Spec	2026 Honda Civic Type R Base	2026 Toyota GR86 Premium MT	2026 BMW M2 6MT
Price
MSRP	$46,895	$34,000	$68,200
MSRP with Destination	$48,090	$35,195	$69,550
Destination Charge	$1,195	$1,195	$1,350
Engine
Engine Type	Inline 4-Cylinder Turbocharged	2.4L Horizontally Opposed 4-Cylinder (Boxer)	Inline 6-cylinder turbocharged (M TwinPower Turbo)
Displacement	2 L	2.4 L	2.993 L
Boost Pressure	25.2 psi	—	—
Horsepower	315 hp @ 6,500 rpm	228 hp @ 7,000 rpm	473 hp @ 6,250 rpm
Torque	310 lb-ft @ 2600-4000 rpm	184 lb-ft @ 3700 rpm	406 lb-ft @ 2650-6130 rpm
Redline	7,000 rpm	7,500 rpm	7,200 rpm
Valvetrain	16-Valve DOHC VTEC	DOHC 16-Valve	DOHC 24-valve with VALVETRONIC variable valve control and Double-VANOS variable camshaft timing
Bore and Stroke	86.0 x 85.9	94.0 x 86.0	84.0 x 90.0
Compression Ratio	9.8:1	12.5:1	9.3:1
Injection Type	Direct Injection	D4-S Direct Injection	Direct injection (High Precision Injection)
Drivetrain
Drive Type	FWD	RWD	RWD
Differential Type	Helical Limited-Slip Differential	Torsen Limited-Slip Differential (LSD)	Active M Differential
Transmission
Transmission	6-Speed Manual (6MT) with Rev-Match Control	6-Speed Manual	6-speed manual with Gear Shift Assistant (rev-matching)
1st Gear	3.625 (38 mph **)	3.626 (37 mph **)	4.11 (40 mph **)
2nd Gear	2.115 (65 mph **)	2.189 (62 mph **)	2.32 (71 mph **)
3rd Gear	1.529 (90 mph **)	1.541 (87 mph **)	1.54 (107 mph **)
4th Gear	1.125 (122 mph **)	1.213 (111 mph **)	1.18 (140 mph **)
5th Gear	0.911 (150 mph **)	1 (135 mph **)	1 (165 mph **)
6th Gear	0.734 (187 mph **)	0.767 (176 mph **)	0.85 (195 mph **)

 

[GRMan]

Track rats look at how much they can afford to maintain a car and then decide on which car to get for tracking.

Unless you are loaded, I will rule out the M2 as consumables are more expensive than the others. You blow a 3rd gear synco on the track and its a new gearbix replacement as gearbox parts are not sold individually,like the Japanese cars. That would also rule out the Supra in a way but the B58 is much cheaoer than the S58 and parts like turbo are much cheaper and more readily available.

The CTR and 86 has loads abd loads of aftermarket support and consumables are cheaper so I would lean towards those two if you heavily track your car.

If you want more power drom the GR86, install a HKS supercharger kit or go nuts with their turbocharger kit on the 86.

 

[jmikes]

You blow a 3rd gear synco on the track and its a new gearbix replacement as gearbox parts are not sold individually,like the Japanese cars. That would also rule out the Supra in a way

If you want more power drom the GR86, install a HKS supercharger kit or go nuts with their turbocharger kit on the 86.

Not to shoot you down man but I don't think worrying about blowing a transmission in an M2/Supra should be followed up by "add forced induction to a boxer engine"

 

[GRMan]

Not to shoot you down man but I don't think worrying about blowing a transmission in an M2/Supra should be followed up by "add forced induction to a boxer engine"

The FA24 seems quite reliable when running on a supercharger, on turbocharger it's a different story that's why I said if OP wants to go nuts with it, a turbocharger is the next step up.

A new FA24 short block is AU$4,200. A new 6 speed ZF gearbox is around AU$7,000 to $12,000. One of the turbos on my S55 went south and dealership quoted me AU$11,000 (parts + labour). No comparison in terms of the running cost on the track between an M2 and the CTR or GR86.

 

[kaj]

If someone needs to worry about a car dropping a synchro while doing a tracl day, then that car is a POS.
Unless this is a "the sky is falling" scenario, of course

 

[GRMan]

If someone needs to worry about a car dropping a synchro while doing a tracl day, then that car is a POS.
Unless this is a "the sky is falling" scenario, of course

Why won't you unless you are talking about a stock standard car? Most people boosted up their B58 or S55, S58 through JB4 or tune and the manual gearbox mated to those engines is rated to 550Nm only. May be the syncros will fail first before the gear teeth or vice versa but the fact is you cannot swap parts out on the ZF 6MT even if it's a little syncro failing is the context here.

 

[razorlab]

Why do dumb people always come into threads like this and insist on constantly doubling down on their stupid incorrect “logic”.

 

[Hasan]

Transmission
Transmission	6-Speed Manual (6MT) with Rev-Match Control	6-Speed Manual	6-speed manual with Gear Shift Assistant (rev-matching)
1st Gear	3.625 (38 mph **)	3.626 (37 mph **)	4.11 (40 mph **)
2nd Gear	2.115 (65 mph **)	2.189 (62 mph **)	2.32 (71 mph **)
3rd Gear	1.529 (90 mph **)	1.541 (87 mph **)	1.54 (107 mph **)
4th Gear	1.125 (122 mph **)	1.213 (111 mph **)	1.18 (140 mph **)
5th Gear	0.911 (150 mph **)	1 (135 mph **)	1 (165 mph **)
6th Gear	0.734 (187 mph **)	0.767 (176 mph **)	0.85 (195 mph **)

That drop in gearing from 1st to 2nd on the M2 is absolutely horrible.

 

[tracer bullet]

70+ cars owned. Mostly sports cars.

So you should know to go drive the options you are considering. It feels like you're magazine racing these. You read something, you heard something, you're concerned about some issue or another that might not even ever affect you. Go drive the cars, get the one that speaks to you. Quit deciding the least of the evils.

 

[Mdstx]

So you should know to go drive the options you are considering. It feels like you're magazine racing these. You read something, you heard something, you're concerned about some issue or another that might not even ever affect you. Go drive the cars, get the one that speaks to you. Quit deciding the least of the evils.

The reality is that it’s not really possible to feel a car on a short test drive. Fortunately, I’ve driven all of the aforementioned cars. And I have done a fair bit of research (which I’m continuing) which has provided me a general (but certainly incomplete) understanding of their pros, cons, shortcomings, etc. Because I am at the track a fair bit, I have been able to chat with people who track these cars and hear their experiences. And, because I’m a driving coach/instructor I am usually welcomed in the passenger seat when they go out on track which allows me to feel the cars when they are pushed.

I know what I want, it just isn’t made by any car manufacturer these days. As a result, compromises will be made.

This post was specifically addressed to those who have experienced the Supra and have experience with any of the other cars mentioned in the title. And it has been beneficial to my decision-making process.

Please appreciate that I like my Supra and don’t regret buying it. I love how it looks. I love the smooth, powerful motor and the lovely manual transmission. I like that it doesn’t have screens everywhere and is rather handsome inside.

I bought the Supra to be an occasional daily/drive to the track car. And while it can certainly fill that role, its shortcomings on track would make it a bit annoying to me on track. I’m one of guys that will happily stay out on track for the entire 30, 40, 60 minute track session. Consequently, cool down laps and fuel starvation/pit stops don’t appeal to me. I admit that the fuel starvation issue was not something I was aware of when I bought the car. And I didn’t fully appreciate how significant the heat management issues were.

For some perspective, I just spent the past 2 days at Watkins Glen with my NC Miata and had a blast. They are hard to beat as track cars. It was amusing watching far more capable cars driven by (supposedly) advanced drivers become smaller in my rear view mirrors as I carved through the corners. But, while I could drive that Miata to the track, it certainly wouldn’t be my first choice. An M2 or the other cars listed in the title of my post would serve that duty much better - as would the Supra.

When you see my Supra posted in the classified forum, you’ll know I have decided. ;-)

Cheers

 

[PikkaGTR]

S

The FA24 seems quite reliable when running on a supercharger, on turbocharger it's a different story that's why I said if OP wants to go nuts with it, a turbocharger is the next step up.

A new FA24 short block is AU$4,200. A new 6 speed ZF gearbox is around AU$7,000 to $12,000. One of the turbos on my S55 went south and dealership quoted me AU$11,000 (parts + labour). No comparison in terms of the running cost on the track between an M2 and the CTR or GR86.

Subaru and reliability? Bollocks. They can't even put the right amount of silicone or figure out how to get the car to turn without oil starvation and blowing up.
Add in forced induction and I'd trust Molly the stripper telling me she loves me before I'd trust a Subaru on track

 

[razorlab]

I'd trust Molly the stripper telling me she loves me before I'd trust a Subaru on track

Say hi to Molly for me.

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