Featured Have a look at the Prototype Supra's engine

Discussion in 'B58 6-Cyl Engine, Exhaust, Drivetrain, Bolt-Ons' started by MA617M, Aug 6, 2018.

  1. justbake

    justbake Well-Known Member

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    I am assuming the 4 cylinder Supra will be just as nimble as the 86 if what they are saying is true. But it makes me think me where it puts the 86 and 4 cylinder Supra in Toyota's lineup
     
  2. DevonK

    DevonK Well-Known Member

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    True, but ECU adjustments can be tied to active exhaust setting levels to enable or disable the crackles in conjunction with exhaust sound changes. This is what Hyundai has done with the I30 N/Veloster N; the loudest setting gives you the pops, the quietest doesn't.
     
  3. A70TTR

    A70TTR Well-Known Member

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    #78 Aug 7, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2018
    I think what I said might have been misinterpreted... 'later' in this context has no specific meaning other than at some point in the future (could be later this year, could be next year, could be in the GRMN two years from now)

    I will throw this out there though, a staged release has been mentioned to me several times... basically, the car comes out as 335hp or w/e, then 380hp, and then the GRMN etc. these are not discussions im going to elaborate on as they have much more to do with product planning/sales/marketing and so much of it is not set in stone, and also I have to be careful what I say because they could look into it if they wanted to and start tracing it back to its source.

    This could also explain quite a few discrepancies present in the information I have been given (some of it I have mentioned, and some of it I have not).
     
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  4. Leeky

    Leeky Active Member

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    We saw a rumour a while back that the 4-cyl Supra would actually mark the return of the Celica name.

    To me this makes perfect sense.

    Release the Supra first with around 350bhp B58 for £50k, then once the dust settles drop the £25k GT86 from the lineup and have the £28k Celica reborn also. But the Celica now comes with a 250bhp+ Turbo BMW B48 4-cyl engine which addresses how the 86 was always branded as not having enough power.

    Two cars which underneath are the same (lowers production costs) and style significantly differently so that you can tell the two apart from a distance.

    This takes us back to the 80’s Supra MK1/MK2 sharing the Celica chassis/main-body underneath.

    You then introduce the extra hot carbon chassis GRMN Supra with a 450+bhp S58 for £100k. (Price based on the GRMN 86 costing £50k, so twice the price of the entry level 86)
     
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  5. DevonK

    DevonK Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately that is SOP in the auto industry for performance cars - look at just about any model: Mustang, Camaro, Jag F type, BMW, Corvette - the highest performing variants are always coming out a year or two (or three) after initial release of a new model. I wouldn't expect Toyota to do anything differently - this tactic reinvigorates interest in the car after the initial excitement dies down, and sports cars typically have very short-lived sales peaks after release, so they need this renewal to minimize sales erosion over time.
     
  6. justbake

    justbake Well-Known Member

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    #81 Aug 7, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2018
    Even if it a Celica, then no one will buy the 86 if your price points stand. You get a car with a 50 more hp and tun-ability for only $3k more.

    Edit: this is a hyperbolic statement, the 86 will still sell but why release another similar car as a direct competitor
     
  7. tha7osavage

    tha7osavage Well-Known Member

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    You’re absolutely right. That’s why I mentioned that ultimately this would purely be a business decision. Which is cool and all, but my only gripe with this is that if they’re truly building a successor to the JZ, it should be offered at the get-go. I’m not complaining about the partnership with BMW. In fact, I think it’s quite cool. But shit, if they’re hiding a new JZ motor, let’s be real, that’s the one we all want.
     
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  8. DevonK

    DevonK Well-Known Member

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    #83 Aug 7, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2018
    Plus a much nicer interior, infotainment tech that doesn't look like it came from a Pep Boys in 1998, an engine that does not sound like it was birthed by a tractor, much greater body rigidity, etc.

    But a difference of only 3000 pounds sterling ($4-5k) from an 86? Wishful thinking there, $40k is as low as Toyota could take it and that would be for a total stripper.
     
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  9. tha7osavage

    tha7osavage Well-Known Member

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    In other words, I better be patient lol
     
  10. Leeky

    Leeky Active Member

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    #85 Aug 7, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2018
    Exaclty, thats why I said..

    You can’t have the Celica and the 86... they are too similar. Kill off the 86 and replace it with a new Celica.

    The 86 was about £5k (approx $6.5k) more expensive than originally planned because of the strength of the Yen.

    But this built in Austria should help the price (maybe not states side but generally). And a B48 powered BMW 230i costs around £32k here in the UK? The Toyota will need to undercut the price so I think £28k is spot on. Nothing wishful, I dont want one lol
     
  11. DevonK

    DevonK Well-Known Member

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    Personally I'd be fine with that sequence: 335 hp at <= 3000 lbs would be my sweet spot, any more power is useless on the street for me. And the price would be more acceptable as well.

    That's likely a minority view here, but then active forum members are hardly representative of the average prospective Supra buyer. Toyota know they will sell far more of the lower-level cars than they will $60k+ near-supercar variants. Just look at the sales volumes of the 4 and 6 cylinder flavours of the pony cars relative to V8 sales, it's 3 or 4 to 1. No reason to think it will be any different with the Supra.
     
  12. justbake

    justbake Well-Known Member

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    The issue of $40k is the amount of competition at that price level, 250hp would be a hard sell especially if it only comes in automatic.
     
  13. justbake

    justbake Well-Known Member

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    Right we are saying the same thing, thats why it is curious on how this 4 cylinder car will be marketed
     
  14. DevonK

    DevonK Well-Known Member

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    Which is why Toyota may decide to do a revamped 86 to address that market tier instead. I can't see them selling any variant of the Supra at $34k in the US, they'd be losing money on every sale. Happy to be proven wrong though.
     
  15. johnny_10196

    johnny_10196 Well-Known Member

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    But from the UK interviews it doesn't sound like the 4 cylinder will be sold world wide.
     

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