HPFP Upgrade

[zrk]

Sure, that's all fine.

There is an extra controller. There is no need for an extra pump or a manifold at modest power levels.

Changing anything adds complexity, even if it's a 'drop-in replacement' for a DI injector. If one goes bad, which does happen, especially with aftermarket shit, you're going to be stuck waiting for another one. If a PI injector goes bad, you run anywhere and buy a replacement.

There's still complexity. It's just different complexity.

Not to mention the pain in the ass that it is to replace a DI injector. You need DI injector seals, and the seal replacement tool. Otherwise you end up with stretched seals and a compression leak.

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[humblemoto]

Sure, that's all fine.

There is an extra controller. There is no need for an extra pump or a manifold at modest power levels.

Changing anything adds complexity, even if it's a 'drop-in replacement' for a DI injector. If one goes bad, which does happen, especially with aftermarket shit, you're going to be stuck waiting for another one. If a PI injector goes bad, you run anywhere and buy a replacement.

There's still complexity. It's just different complexity.

Not to mention the pain in the ass that it is to replace a DI injector. You need DI injector seals, and the seal replacement tool. Otherwise you end up with stretched seals and a compression leak.

Completely agree with that assessment, there are a lot of compromises I would choose to have direct part swaps that are upgrades. I prioritize factory look and feel over everything else which is why I’m still stock. Only when those compromises lessen will I make the choice to swap. The B58 may be one of the best DI engines in regards to keeping valves clean without fuel washing.
Injector failure is always a risk regardless of where it is, to assume a port injector failure is less dangerous is false. If the car metered that air and fuel and the fuel isn’t there. Boom.

 

[zrk]

Completely agree with that assessment, there are a lot of compromises I would choose to have direct part swaps that are upgrades. I prioritize factory look and feel over everything else which is why I’m still stock. Only when those compromises lessen will I make the choice to swap. The B58 may be one of the best DI engines in regards to keeping valves clean without fuel washing.
Injector failure is always a risk regardless of where it is, to assume a port injector failure is less dangerous is false. If the car metered that air and fuel and the fuel isn’t there. Boom.

Injector failure is injector failure for sure. Either way, it's going boom unless your tune is good. The problem I was mentioning was replacement parts, not a catastrophe.

PI Injector failures will trigger limp mode just like DI injector failures. That's about the best you can do in either world.

 

[Vimugsy011]

For those that want a modest power, the HPFP might be a better option since the HPFP is the first thing to max out. Uses the stock controls and all so like mentioned before it does limit the complexity. If your goals are around 600hp the HPFP might be a cheaper and better option, port hardware and electrical is usually more expensive.

 

[MOA90]

Sure, that's all fine.

There is an extra controller. There is no need for an extra pump or a manifold at modest power levels.

Changing anything adds complexity, even if it's a 'drop-in replacement' for a DI injector. If one goes bad, which does happen, especially with aftermarket shit, you're going to be stuck waiting for another one. If a PI injector goes bad, you run anywhere and buy a replacement.

There's still complexity. It's just different complexity.

Not to mention the pain in the ass that it is to replace a DI injector. You need DI injector seals, and the seal replacement tool. Otherwise you end up with stretched seals and a compression leak.

What do you consider modest power in regards to not needing a LPFP with port injection? I'm slowly modding my Supra and want to add port injection after my turbo upgrade but I was wondering at what power level (estimate) that I would need to add a LPFP.

 

[Thraxbert]

Around 600. The LPFP has a little more to give than the DI pump, so dropping PI into the car can extract around 600 at the wheels versus 550ish without.

 

[MOA90]

Around 600. The LPFP has a little more to give than the DI pump, so dropping PI into the car can extract around 600 at the wheels versus 550ish without.

Good to know, thank you

 

[AJRMKV]

Around 600. The LPFP has a little more to give than the DI pump, so dropping PI into the car can extract around 600 at the wheels versus 550ish without.

Im curious where you get the 600 whp lpfp limit

Every tuner I’ve spoken to or has actively posted about it has given a 700whp limit

including:

Justin
Mikey
Shoup
Visconti

I don’t know what to believe tbh

 

[zrk]

I don’t know what to believe tbh

Your lamda actual, I guess.

 

[Thraxbert]

Im curious where you get the 600 whp lpfp limit

Every tuner I’ve spoken to or has actively posted about it has given a 700whp limit

including:

Justin
Mikey
Shoup
Visconti

I don’t know what to believe tbh

They tend to speak "perfect world," and I'm trying to be realistic. The truth is that "WHP limit" has a truckload of variables:

What fuel?
What are the IATs?
What size is the downpipe?
What turbo do you have?
What is the A/R of the cold and hot sides?
Do you have manifold y/n?
What exhaust do you have?
How is it tuned?
Is your dyno accurate? Are you sure? Are you 100% sure? Check again.

The "700" number expects perfection in every category. But there are an awful lot of people who don't have access to ethanol; don't have a 4" downpipe; have a stock diameter inlet to the catback and so on. So, yes, I'm always going to cite a more conservative number so I don't run into a bunch of people who are like "REEE YOU TOLD ME 700 AND I COULD ONLY GET 630".

 

[AJRMKV]

They tend to speak "perfect world," and I'm trying to be realistic. The truth is that "WHP limit" has a truckload of variables:

What fuel?
What are the IATs?
What size is the downpipe?
What turbo do you have?
What is the A/R of the cold and hot sides?
Do you have manifold y/n?
What exhaust do you have?
How is it tuned?
Is your dyno accurate? Are you sure? Are you 100% sure? Check again.

The "700" number expects perfection in every category. But there are an awful lot of people who don't have access to ethanol; don't have a 4" downpipe; have a stock diameter inlet to the catback and so on. So, yes, I'm always going to cite a more conservative number so I don't run into a bunch of people who are like "REEE YOU TOLD ME 700 AND I COULD ONLY GET 630".

I see. So upper limit is 700 on the average dyno if you have the right supporting modifications, fuel and tuner

 

[razorlab]

The problem is literally nobody has shared fuel pressure data when the LPFP can no longer keep up. This is the reason you are getting so many "trust me bro" responses when it comes to when the OEM LPFP gives up, with nobody showing their work.

The fact is most actually don't know because they don't bother to install a fuel pressure sensor on the low pressure side unless they are on Reflex, and if they are on Reflex they already swallowed the "PI is the only way" pill.

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