Race Tracking Your Supra - Information exchange

[Gabe]

Also my oil temps are hanging on the 260s for sometimes an entire lap.

my coolant temps are very solid. Also I have the WT on manifold.

I’m looking into the Verus air to oil cooling. If someone knows of a better alternative LMK

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[Vegas17]

Am I gleaming the cube running these for another track day? Front RE71RS's.

 

[Traxion]

Am I gleaming the cube running these for another track day? Front RE71RS's.

Need more pixels but it looks like you've been touching the wear bars for a bit and the middle-left before you get to the outside shoulder is now flat and barely shows the ridges that used to be there. You're probably close to cording the outside. Not sure I'd bank on going another 4x 20-30min sessions.

 

[Islindur]

Good to know that there are good alternatives to Verus. Is not a matter of if, but when mine will be ripped out or something.

Zebulon, AJH, Verus V3 like Kyle has are 3 top choices. Also SydneyComposites from AUS.
V1/V2 verus splitters are meh/medicore at best, biggest benefit is strenght, not so easy to break. Heavy, 2 piece, flat, no real airfoil shape, mounting points r also not optimal, tunnels could be better.
For example AJ tunnels r engineered by KyleEngineers (f1 merc aerodynamist) and r max size possible for Supra without bigger cuts.
If i didnt want adjustability i'd do Zebulon probably but the fact they dont post any data puts me off a bit.

I'm re-doing all aero, when all on I'll post it here

 

[Evolution]

Am I gleaming the cube running these for another track day? Front RE71RS's.

hard pass. Those are done.

 

[Subydude]

I ran a small tire and tune test for fun this past weekend at VIR. First two sessions I ran 275/40/18 square Yok A052's both on an MHD Stage 1 93 tune. Then I swapped to staggered 71RZ's, same tune. Finally I swapped to E40 on the staggered RZ's.

The RZ's were 275/35/18 front and 295/35/18. It was surprisingly good and didn't get pushy until the front axle heat saturated. After the front was hot I had to dial back some, but it was still fine to drive. I would prefer a square 295 setup, but the class I run in requires stock shocks which means staggered is still faster than square 275's IMO as the failure mode is more understeer vs more oversteer. I did like the shorter sidewall up front with the taller out back vs the square setup in terms of feel.

Stage 1 93 tune does bring more power, and the 295 soaked it up better than the 275 A052 I ran before. Once I switched to the E40 tune for the last session I had to use more modulation in tighter corner, but it was still just plain old fun to drive. Speed delta down the back straight was 8mph (151 vs 159). I could have hit higher speeds on both, but I was working up to where I should have been braking vs where I was the last time I went to VIR. E40 tune is very rowdy though, so if you're using it plan on passing more people with the straight line talent it brings.

I also swapped the Pagid RSL29 pads out for Project Mu 999's with a fresh bleed of SRF (which I had in prior as well). This netted a good improvement in braking distance, although the 999's did judder a bit in the first session. I had bedded them in on the street, but maybe not enough. After some hard stops the judder went away and they were pretty spot on the rest of the event. I actually kept over braking since I was still gun shy from the last time on the Pagids. Personally, this makes me think the car likes something in the .50-.55 Mu range and a temp range up to about 1,600.

Two issues during the day:

1. When I used the E40 OTS MHD tune it went to limp mode of 8-9 psi for a lap or so. I pulled into the pits, power cycled the car, and reset the tune and it went right back to the normal E40 boost of 20-22 psi. I pulled the codes and nothing showed up so I wasn't sure if it was limp mode or something else. With the 93 tune it was fine, albeit would brush the 140 degree mark for IAT after the long straight. On the E40 tune it would hit 150 ish IAT. Outside was 75 with track surface around 90. This told me the E40 tune would be a true time attack tune on a stage 1 car without the ability to run a better IC. I did some googling, but nothing specific came up other than people fix it by doing exactly what I did, and not everyone has a CEL that comes with it.

2. The car had trouble braking while turning. There are two specific corners at VIR where you're trying to shed speed while turning and for some reason the car really didn't want to stop as hard while doing that. I didn't remember it earlier in the day on the Yoks so I wasn't sure if that was RZ based, brake based, or just the car showing a limit. Anyone had any issues like this? I haven't done at brake tuning via software so wasn't sure if this was part of the infamous "brake coding"

One thing I did notice with the heat, while recovery was reasonable, VIR is a good stress test since the back straight and front straight aren't separated by a ton of distance. After the back straight the car would be over 150F on the E40 tune and would have only recovered to 125-128F by the front straight where it would go over 150F again. I am allowed to do a larger heat exchanger for the IC circuit, so I wonder if the recovery time would be worth it. Given the temps we see in the south, I will likely stick to the 93 tune for summer months unless it's a Grid Life event or other org that both allows E40 AND is running a real TA style event where I only get 3 laps.

CN: Staggered tires do work if you're limited by front shocks. The new RZ is a joy to drive and you get an extra lap or so before they heat saturate vs the RS. Project Mu 999's are good, but man you need to trust them.

 

[razorlab]

Two issues during the day:

1. When I used the E40 OTS MHD tune it went to limp mode of 8-9 psi for a lap or so. I pulled into the pits, power cycled the car, and reset the tune and it went right back to the normal E40 boost of 20-22 psi. I pulled the codes and nothing showed up so I wasn't sure if it was limp mode or something else. With the 93 tune it was fine, albeit would brush the 140 degree mark for IAT after the long straight. On the E40 tune it would hit 150 ish IAT. Outside was 75 with track surface around 90. This told me the E40 tune would be a true time attack tune on a stage 1 car without the ability to run a better IC. I did some googling, but nothing specific came up other than people fix it by doing exactly what I did, and not everyone has a CEL that comes with it.


One thing I did notice with the heat, while recovery was reasonable, VIR is a good stress test since the back straight and front straight aren't separated by a ton of distance. After the back straight the car would be over 150F on the E40 tune and would have only recovered to 125-128F by the front straight where it would go over 150F again. I am allowed to do a larger heat exchanger for the IC circuit, so I wonder if the recovery time would be worth it. Given the temps we see in the south, I will likely stick to the 93 tune for summer months unless it's a Grid Life event or other org that both allows E40 AND is running a real TA style event where I only get 3 laps.

Yes, the OTS maps run too much boost for track use on the OEM intake manifold. You will get that limp mode on 93 or Flex if you push hard enough and the ambient temps are high enough. The throttle is also insanely amped up.

At 140F+ IAT, the DME will be pulling a large amount of ignition timing and target load.

 

[Subydude]

Yes, the OTS maps run too much boost for track use on the OEM intake manifold. You will get that limp mode on 93 or Flex if you push hard enough and the ambient temps are high enough. The throttle is also insanely amped up.

At 140F+ IAT, the DME will be pulling a large amount of ignition timing and target load.

The 93 tune was fine in terms of temps (120-130 on the logging app) until ambient went over the low 70's, with boost targeting 16 psi. The E40 map with it's high target definitely dumped a lot more heat in.

I expect when it hits summer here that I'll have to monitor the temps a lot more on the 93 tune as well depending on the track. I'm familiar with the 140 limit from other reading.

Surprisingly, with the engine set to normal mode I felt the throttle was "ok". It wasn't linear, but it also wasn't too bad. With everything in sport I definitely agree that throttle is stupidly touchy.

I wish the MHD super cool option included the IC circuit so I could actually precool that as much as possible. Would really allow a full flier lap vs starting at 110-120.

 

[Vegas17]

Where are you guys buying PMU 999 pads from? Having a hard time finding anything online for front pads.

 

[razorlab]

Where are you guys buying PMU 999 pads from? Having a hard time finding anything online for front pads.

https://www.blackhawkjapan.com/products/project-mu-z723-racing999?_pos=1&_sid=41965772b&_ss=r

 

[Vegas17]

Got the 999's, do we know if the 999's and PMU's are compatible or need to sand/clean rotors? I know it's best practice but be nice to know going forward.

 

[Subydude]

I didn't when I swapped them in. That said, I had some shudder in the first session when I went to VIR last month. I had tried doing some basic pad bedding before, but evidently didn't get enough heat through them on the street to do a clean/bed. I had gone from Pagid to stock to PMU 999's and the 999's were the first ones to have this effect.

If you have the ability to scotchbrite or sand the rotors somewhat it "should" help. Or just be aware it might give some shudder.

 

[no_torque]

999s need an impressively strong bed cycle - I’ve found the first session is pretty much a throw away in terms of actual brake performance.

The 999 compress a bit while they warm up. Do agree you need to trust them because mentally you think the pedal is going soft, but it’s just pad compression. Brake ducts help keep them in their happy zone.

I think the brake + turning is just simple multitasking. Be interesting to see your GSum to see where you’re at if you have issues if you’re simply peaking GSum

 

[Vegas17]

Updating pretty much everything on my car after a disappointing session last month. New set of RE71RZ on the fronts slipped a good bit on the wheels which was surprising as the RS’s never moved. Car pulled a lot of timing, way off top speeds. 85 degree ambient.

Have 2 way MCS coil overs coming, Wagner manifold going on, all new 295/35/18 square RZs mounted on apex’s and the 999 pads. Installing Razorlabs data logging setup so hopefully be able to contribute some data numbers back. Money guns need a cooldown now.

 

[Traxion]

Updating pretty much everything on my car after a disappointing session last month. New set of RE71RZ on the fronts slipped a good bit on the wheels which was surprising as the RS’s never moved. Car pulled a lot of timing, way off top speeds. 85 degree ambient.

Have 2 way MCS coil overs coming, Wagner manifold going on, all new 295/35/18 square RZs mounted on apex’s and the 999 pads. Installing Razorlabs data logging setup so hopefully be able to contribute some data numbers back. Money guns need a cooldown now.

Great choices. I'm working on my rebuild with the new car now and went with Wagner and MCS 2WR again and should finish up the install this weekend. Undo the top of the fender liner in front and it gives a ton more clearance to swing the shock out without the need to remove the tophat.

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