The Development Story of the MKV Supra

chnco

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I find it hard to believe someone would go out of their way to tell you they were intentionally misrepresenting their car unless they were your personal friends or significant other. I have been in the MKIV community for quite some time and know a good bit of the notable Members, none of them would ever do anything like this. It’s all heresay at this point since you’re not going to call them out. I would implore you to name names for the betterment of the car community. Behavior like this doesn’t belong in an enthusiast group.

Maybe you mistook them for disconnecting it to replace a burnt out bulb on the gauge cluster and then plugged it right back in.
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Guff

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Oh man, I remember this sketchy ass exotic car dealership in Chicago that had Supras in and out all the time. Always questionable cars. I test drove a few of them, many of which were in far worse shape than their mileage let on. And then one time I test drove a '94, it was singled on a standalone, and the odometer was off. Just straight up off. I asked what was up with that because they had photos of the mileage in the ad. They said the bulb fuses sometimes on the odometers, lmao. Needless to say, I never bought a car from that dealership. They eventually closed down because the owner was arrested iirc lol.

Years later, when I was selling my last '94, I was talking to some random Supra guy that I met through a friend. When he heard I was selling it, he asked me if I wanted to get my odometer reprogrammed, because values were so high and I could make plenty more money. He said he knows how to do it and has done it plenty of times. Something about desoldering the little memory chip-y thingy from the odo board and sticking it on a breadboard of sorts that interfaced with his computer (I really don't know much about how computers work clearly). Needless to say, I politely declined and never spoke to this gentleman again. But then it clicked for me, if this guy was doing this stuff, then that sketchy exotic dealership likely was too because their cars all felt and drove like shit with 30-50k miles on them (the classic rear subframe shimmy was always telling).

There are always dishonest people out there but I'd like to think that they're the exception, not the rule. But in today's day of crazy skyrocketing values, I can't help but feel a little uncomfortable. Just gotta be vigilant!
 

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I find it hard to believe someone would go out of their way to tell you they were intentionally misrepresenting their car unless they were your personal friends or significant other.
This goes both ways. How many of those MKIV owners you know are personal friends or significant others? Even then they wouldn't tell you everything. It's not hard to hide something like this unless you get into their cars often. I personally wouldn't do such thing but if I did I wouldn't just disconnect the ODO, I would put it on a switch in case someone I don't know that well rides with me or takes it for a drive.
 

chnco

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That’s why I said “heresay”. Let’s get this thread back on topic.
 

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Gladly.

So when can we confirm/debunk Toyota's involvement in building the B58? I'm a Toyota fanboy so if I knew Toyota had any involvement, I would hold BMW's 40i line up in much higher regard and maybe even consider one in the far future knowing they have some Toyota DNA. BMW purists though I'm not sure. Which is the only reason I see why BMW would hide such thing, that and it's reputation as a car manufacturer.

Toyota on the other hand would gain much praise for their next gen 2JZ if they confirm their involvement in details. Probably stopping this hate bandwagon on the MKV all together. Only reason I see them keeping it a secret is if they signed a contract with BMW or if it's simply not true. Even if the engine is a dud, Toyota has already lost much of it's reputation by putting another manufacturers engine in their legendary Supra, there isn't much to lose there. They could blame it on BMW regardless of their involvement or not. Revealing everything however, can exponentially increase sales and profit with almost no down side.
 

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Gladly.

So when can we confirm/debunk Toyota's involvement in building the B58? I'm a Toyota fanboy so if I knew Toyota had any involvement, I would hold BMW's 40i line up in much higher regard and maybe even consider one in the far future knowing they have some Toyota DNA. BMW purists though I'm not sure. Which is the only reason I see why BMW would hide such thing, that and it's reputation as a car manufacturer.

Toyota on the other hand would gain much praise for their next gen 2JZ if they confirm their involvement in details. Probably stopping this hate bandwagon on the MKV all together. Only reason I see them keeping it a secret is if they signed a contract with BMW or if it's simply not true. Even if the engine is a dud, Toyota has already lost much of it's reputation by putting another manufacturers engine in their legendary Supra, there isn't much to lose there. They could blame it on BMW regardless of their involvement or not. Revealing everything however, can exponentially increase sales and profit with almost no down side.
I think the die has already been cast. There's really only two camps when it comes to the precise nature of the Supra co-development :

1. The ones that feel that any percentage of BMW parts above 0.0% is too much
2. And the rest that are interested out of curiosity, but in the end really don't care.

Toyota is not going to lure anyone from group 1 by revealing the specifics. I'm interested because I liked the feel of the 86. So if Tada delivers similar driving dynamics, in a more capable package... I don't care if he made it out of 114% BMW parts.
 

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I think the die has already been cast. There's really only two camps when it comes to the precise nature of the Supra co-development :

1. The ones that feel that any percentage of BMW parts above 0.0% is too much
2. And the rest that are interested out of curiosity, but in the end really don't care.

Toyota is not going to lure anyone from group 1 by revealing the specifics. I'm interested because I liked the feel of the 86. So if Tada delivers similar driving dynamics, in a more capable package... I don't care if he made it out of 114% BMW parts.
I'm in the 2nd category but many people who I have spoken with would change their minds knowing the engine has a Toyota touch as most like how it looks but get turned off when they know it's sharing the same platform as the Z4. I would love to see a side by side disassembly video or blog of a 2JZ, N55 and a B58 to show how similar or different they are.
 

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I noticed that the A90 will have the ZF8HP that holds 500 Nm of torque. I also noticed that BMW used the 700 Nm version for their 335D. Logically that was the only choice in options from ZF; 500 Nm, 550 Nm, and next is 700 Nm etc.. The 335D made up to 630 Nm (plenty of extra room for a little more). Considering this, does that mean if the A90 is modified (which it will be most likely) the transmission wouldn't last long? It seems they didn't choose a transmission with overhead in terms of torque. I'm sure the aftermarket will allow this B58 to make over 600 Nm of torque. Reliability goes down if that's the case. I'm not too happy about that... unless someone knows ZF8HP50 well
 

kona61

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I noticed that the A90 will have the ZF8HP that holds 500 Nm of torque. I also noticed that BMW used the 700 Nm version for their 335D. Logically that was the only choice in options from ZF; 500 Nm, 550 Nm, and next is 700 Nm etc.. The 335D made up to 630 Nm (plenty of extra room for a little more). Considering this, does that mean if the A90 is modified (which it will be most likely) the transmission wouldn't last long? It seems they didn't choose a transmission with overhead in terms of torque. I'm sure the aftermarket will allow this B58 to make over 600 Nm of torque. Reliability goes down if that's the case. I'm not too happy about that... unless someone knows ZF8HP50 well
I doubt it will be an issue. The old ZF6HP were rated to similar or less amounts, and they hold several hundred extra horsepower with a trans flash.
 
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