The MKIV vs MKV Thread

[kaneda]

This is a dumb thread. Both cars are great and 30 years apart!

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[Australian of The North]

Love the mkiv supras like most do, but a “drivers car” it was not, I disagree. The drivers car in that era, imo, was the NSX, and RX7. They were more focused, steered better, chassis was better.

Not saying they are bad, the Supra built its reputation on making loads of power, reliably, and easily. Again, not saying they can’t handle either, they were phenomenal. Just not as hardcore as the rx7 and NSX in the feel and driving dynamics department.

Just my two cents


You also have not driven a a90 and making assumptions based on what merit? Wait and see, this Supra is supposed to be more focused as a “drivers car” where chassis, steering, balance, all in one.

Lol, three pedals? Electric steering? I understand the need and desire for manuals, but come drive a gt3rs and you’ll change your mind. One of the best drivers car ever made, with a PDK transmission and “terrible” electric steering like the old NSX and s2000’s.

You proved my point precisely here with your gt3rs and referencing cars like the NSX and RX7.

I've driven your suggested GT3RS - phenomenal track weapon, top 5 for sure......, but Its ABSOLUTELY F'N GOD AWFUL on the street, i couldn't get out fast enough. Its a very expensive, impractical car that only use is on a race track like the nurburgring, and it doesn't require the driving skills(when at limit) that a 1993 911 does (which would be a far better and more rewarding experience). That would be much slower yes, but more fun and rewarding.

Likewise an A80 supra, a 1993 911, or an NSX or RX7 would be a far more enjoyable experience driving from LA to NY with a sonoma lap, or from Berlin to Manchester with the nurbirgring thrown in. Cars like the A80, the NSX, RX7, and a 93' 911 ARE drivers cars, despite your protest ... you are the driver, all inputs come and go through you, its focused around you, and they work extremely well at just about everything. A seriously modified A80, FD, NSX, R34, STI or more will blitz an A90, and some will give your GT3RS a run for its money, but they still will work in places it could only dream of, track, street or strip, and for lot more fun enjoyment and reward.

Unfortunately the A90 and so many modern day cars take that driver focus away. They fact the A80, NSX, RX7 and classic 911's are undoubtedly harder to drive than an A90 is what makes them so much more fun, rewarding, and appealing. The GT3RS is no doubt a very hard car to drive because of its god-like performance, but its still taking the path of removing a lot of what makes driving enjoyable. I believe your interpretation of "Drivers" car is misguided. The GT3RS is a race-car first and foremost, not so much a drivers car. Its less about the driver and more about the cars lap time at any cost, otherwise it wouldn't have that finger clicking PDK in it. Is it better technically? yes, faster? yes, progression? yes.. more rewarding? no, it cant be when the driver inst doing all the work, if it were all for the driver, it would be more engaging.

If I do another long driving holiday into Europe, I'm very glad it would be in a modified A80. Id also consider a classic 93' 911, and so much more. The point is clear, the more engagement I have with the car that's all round capable, the greater the challenge and the better the reward. All newer cars are seeking to remove driver involvement, or reduce it to a minimum, or be a one trick pony like the GT3RS - Track only.

Like I said, if the A90 was full autonomous, and didn't require a driver, would you still say its more rewarding drivers car? obviously not...
But what if i said it removed 75% of driver requirements/inputs?.. prob still not
But what if i said it removed 50% of driver requirements/inputs?.. because that's exactly what it does, and every newer sports car do. Its taking away the core things that made cars like the A80 legends, and replaced it with PS4 plug and play driving requirements.

I like the A90, i think it will be fantastic daily driver car, but i don't think it will excel enough in any other are enough to be worthwhile, its just far too high priced for what it is, when you could have a slew of 90's cars that will put a bigger smile on your face, and leave it for dead for half the money, and look better to boot.

Finally like ive siad in another thread, its irrelevant because we are NOT the target demographic for the A90.
Toyota Isn't making this car for us (enthusiasts). Its paying homage to us, but its not us that its targeting.
Its targeting the casual buyer who knows little to nothing about cars. Theses are the people who are NOT on forums arguing semantics. They are the people who care more about gadgets than driving experience, who only buy new, who want a reasonably priced, blingy/flashy, sports car, but are not going to use it for purpose, who leave it parked up on the driver over night, repeat for 3 years until something breaks, and then cash it in on a new one. This forum is an entirely different demographic to the sales target.

 

[RyanGT3RS]

You proved my point precisely here with your gt3rs and referencing cars like the NSX and RX7.

I've driven your suggested GT3RS - phenomenal track weapon, top 5 for sure......, but Its ABSOLUTELY F'N GOD AWFUL on the street, i couldn't get out fast enough. Its a very expensive, impractical car that only use is on a race track like the nurburgring, and it doesn't require the driving skills(when at limit) that a 1993 911 does (which would be a far better and more rewarding experience). That would be much slower yes, but more fun and rewarding.

Likewise an A80 supra, a 1993 911, or an NSX or RX7 would be a far more enjoyable experience driving from LA to NY with a sonoma lap, or from Berlin to Manchester with the nurbirgring thrown in. Cars like the A80, the NSX, RX7, and a 93' 911 ARE drivers cars, despite your protest ... you are the driver, all inputs come and go through you, its focused around you, and they work extremely well at just about everything. A seriously modified A80, FD, NSX, R34, STI or more will blitz an A90, and some will give your GT3RS a run for its money, but they still will work in places it could only dream of, track, street or strip, and for lot more fun enjoyment and reward.

Unfortunately the A90 and so many modern day cars take that driver focus away. They fact the A80, NSX, RX7 and classic 911's are undoubtedly harder to drive than an A90 is what makes them so much more fun, rewarding, and appealing. The GT3RS is no doubt a very hard car to drive because of its god-like performance, but its still taking the path of removing a lot of what makes driving enjoyable. I believe your interpretation of "Drivers" car is misguided. The GT3RS is a race-car first and foremost, not so much a drivers car. Its less about the driver and more about the cars lap time at any cost, otherwise it wouldn't have that finger clicking PDK in it. Is it better technically? yes, faster? yes, progression? yes.. more rewarding? no, it cant be when the driver inst doing all the work, if it were all for the driver, it would be more engaging.

If I do another long driving holiday into Europe, I'm very glad it would be in a modified A80. Id also consider a classic 93' 911, and so much more. The point is clear, the more engagement I have with the car that's all round capable, the greater the challenge and the better the reward. All newer cars are seeking to remove driver involvement, or reduce it to a minimum, or be a one trick pony like the GT3RS - Track only.

Like I said, if the A90 was full autonomous, and didn't require a driver, would you still say its more rewarding drivers car? obviously not...
But what if i said it removed 75% of driver requirements/inputs?.. prob still not
But what if i said it removed 50% of driver requirements/inputs?.. because that's exactly what it does, and every newer sports car do. Its taking away the core things that made cars like the A80 legends, and replaced it with PS4 plug and play driving requirements.

I like the A90, i think it will be fantastic daily driver car, but i don't think it will excel enough in any other are enough to be worthwhile, its just far too high priced for what it is, when you could have a slew of 90's cars that will put a bigger smile on your face, and leave it for dead for half the money, and look better to boot.

Finally like ive siad in another thread, its irrelevant because we are NOT the target demographic for the A90.
Toyota Isn't making this car for us (enthusiasts). Its paying homage to us, but its not us that its targeting.
Its targeting the casual buyer who knows little to nothing about cars. Theses are the people who are NOT on forums arguing semantics. They are the people who care more about gadgets than driving experience, who only buy new, who want a reasonably priced, blingy/flashy, sports car, but are not going to use it for purpose, who leave it parked up on the driver over night, repeat for 3 years until something breaks, and then cash it in on a new one. This forum is an entirely different demographic to the sales target.

My referencing of the rx7, s2000, and NSX was that they are the more “purer” drivers car compared to the A80, the Supra wasn’t known for its chassis, it’s steering compared to those. It’s a phenomenal car, no doubt, but the Supra was known for its modding potential, massive power, and reliability. That was my point. It did all those things well, as a whole. You can throw the e36 M3 in there with that era of cars.


“GT3rs not a drivers car” lol. Tells me all I need to know.

You wouldn’t be able to drive an RX7 from LA to NY, it’ll break down before making half of the trip

Speak for yourself “Toyota isn’t making the car for us enthusiasts”

Have a nice day!

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

You proved my point precisely here with your gt3rs and referencing cars like the NSX and RX7.

I've driven your suggested GT3RS - phenomenal track weapon, top 5 for sure......, but Its ABSOLUTELY F'N GOD AWFUL on the street, i couldn't get out fast enough. Its a very expensive, impractical car that only use is on a race track like the nurburgring, and it doesn't require the driving skills(when at limit) that a 1993 911 does (which would be a far better and more rewarding experience). That would be much slower yes, but more fun and rewarding.

Likewise an A80 supra, a 1993 911, or an NSX or RX7 would be a far more enjoyable experience driving from LA to NY with a sonoma lap, or from Berlin to Manchester with the nurbirgring thrown in. Cars like the A80, the NSX, RX7, and a 93' 911 ARE drivers cars, despite your protest ... you are the driver, all inputs come and go through you, its focused around you, and they work extremely well at just about everything. A seriously modified A80, FD, NSX, R34, STI or more will blitz an A90, and some will give your GT3RS a run for its money, but they still will work in places it could only dream of, track, street or strip, and for lot more fun enjoyment and reward.

Unfortunately the A90 and so many modern day cars take that driver focus away. They fact the A80, NSX, RX7 and classic 911's are undoubtedly harder to drive than an A90 is what makes them so much more fun, rewarding, and appealing. The GT3RS is no doubt a very hard car to drive because of its god-like performance, but its still taking the path of removing a lot of what makes driving enjoyable. I believe your interpretation of "Drivers" car is misguided. The GT3RS is a race-car first and foremost, not so much a drivers car. Its less about the driver and more about the cars lap time at any cost, otherwise it wouldn't have that finger clicking PDK in it. Is it better technically? yes, faster? yes, progression? yes.. more rewarding? no, it cant be when the driver inst doing all the work, if it were all for the driver, it would be more engaging.

If I do another long driving holiday into Europe, I'm very glad it would be in a modified A80. Id also consider a classic 93' 911, and so much more. The point is clear, the more engagement I have with the car that's all round capable, the greater the challenge and the better the reward. All newer cars are seeking to remove driver involvement, or reduce it to a minimum, or be a one trick pony like the GT3RS - Track only.

Like I said, if the A90 was full autonomous, and didn't require a driver, would you still say its more rewarding drivers car? obviously not...
But what if i said it removed 75% of driver requirements/inputs?.. prob still not
But what if i said it removed 50% of driver requirements/inputs?.. because that's exactly what it does, and every newer sports car do. Its taking away the core things that made cars like the A80 legends, and replaced it with PS4 plug and play driving requirements.

I like the A90, i think it will be fantastic daily driver car, but i don't think it will excel enough in any other are enough to be worthwhile, its just far too high priced for what it is, when you could have a slew of 90's cars that will put a bigger smile on your face, and leave it for dead for half the money, and look better to boot.

Finally like ive siad in another thread, its irrelevant because we are NOT the target demographic for the A90.
Toyota Isn't making this car for us (enthusiasts). Its paying homage to us, but its not us that its targeting.
Its targeting the casual buyer who knows little to nothing about cars. Theses are the people who are NOT on forums arguing semantics. They are the people who care more about gadgets than driving experience, who only buy new, who want a reasonably priced, blingy/flashy, sports car, but are not going to use it for purpose, who leave it parked up on the driver over night, repeat for 3 years until something breaks, and then cash it in on a new one. This forum is an entirely different demographic to the sales target.

Just. Wait. Till. The. Car. Comes. Out. You don't even know how the car is going to portray itself. Plus, many reviewers (if not all) have said this car is geared towards the enthusiasts and the general public alike, and it will be decent at what it does. If that's not enough, wait for the top tier cars that's coming later. No need to write a book over something that's purely speculation.

 

[twntrbo03']

You guys crack me up! "What will you MKIV guys DO?".... Not give a shit!
The MKIV Supra is a legend and will always be a legend. The car STILL looks gorgeous and better than most modern cars in my opinion. I never bought my Supras because I thought they were going to appreciate in value... I bought them because they are, in my mind, beautiful works of art and fun as hell to drive. Most of the people posting here have probably never owned a mkiv and just want to stir the pot. I am hopeful that the new MKV does well, but it wont affect my MKIV. It's sad that Toyota has taken 17 years to release a successor to our car and decided to use BMW's engine and drivetrain. Again, I would hope the new Supra is vastly superior to a 20+ year old car... who wouldn't?! I'm also sure these "serialized" cars that everyone is waiting on and wanting to buy will not be cheap by a long shot! If everyone on here is already bitching about the entry level cars base price, do you think the top tier will be a couple grand more?!?! If you do, please send me whatever meds you are on, because living in reality is getting old for me as well

 

[Turbro]

You guys crack me up! "What will you MKIV guys DO?".... Not give a shit!
The MKIV Supra is a legend and will always be a legend. The car STILL looks gorgeous and better than most modern cars in my opinion. I never bought my Supras because I thought they were going to appreciate in value... I bought them because they are, in my mind, beautiful works of art and fun as hell to drive. Most of the people posting here have probably never owned a mkiv and just want to stir the pot. I am hopeful that the new MKV does well, but it wont affect my MKIV. It's sad that Toyota has taken 17 years to release a successor to our car and decided to use BMW's engine and drivetrain. Again, I would hope the new Supra is vastly superior to a 20+ year old car... who wouldn't?! I'm also sure these "serialized" cars that everyone is waiting on and wanting to buy will not be cheap by a long shot! If everyone on here is already bitching about the entry level cars base price, do you think the top tier will be a couple grand more?!?! If you do, please send me whatever meds you are on, because living in reality is getting old for me as well

+1 lol. I won’t be selling mine ever and more and more people still will want them even though they will slowly decrease in numbers over time. Us mkiv owners are just going to add an mkv to our collection, and still drive the mkiv whenever we want because they are their own car and have their own driving experience. They will continue to go up imo.

 

[KahnBB6]

^^ I agree with twntrbo03'. My friends who do have a single MKIV in their garages probably aren't looking to sell them or at least at no time in the foreseeable future. Of the friends I know who have more than one MKIV, they're probably open to selling at least one them eventually but the are in NO hurry to make a sale. AT ALL. They know the values are rising and that gradually some parts are becoming harder to come by on a less than 12k left in existence classic that was popular and expensive in its own time and beyond.

Though the real world value differences are apples to oranges I'm certainly not selling my USDM TT swapped manual SC300 (aside, the styling of which I like anyway). High HP built MKIVs are better. The MKV TRD/GRMN/Alpha will be better. And I am interested for sure but it still doesn't matter to me considering the MKIV cars and their drivelines. My sequential 2JZGTE coupe is a timeless experience I'm quite pleased with. An MKIV is not going to cease to be special in the least no matter how good the MKV serialized Alphas will be.

But... I am expecting the MKV serialized Alphas to be VERY special in their own right, on par with the MKIV TT's but using newer technology and probably with far superior handling at the limit. Plus, it's already looking like Toyota will be doing several grades of factory uprated performance versions of the MKVs that, stock for stock on power specs, at least outdo what showroom spec USDM MKIV TT 6-speeds and JDM MKIV RZ's offered.

 

[Supra Turbo]

My personal benchmark for this car is for the motor to reliably hold 800whp / 700wtq on an unopened longblock. The greater concern to me, is will Toyota put a 6 speed manual in this new car and will the transmission and the rest of the driveline be able to reliably handle at least similar output.

Either way my TT 6 sp MKIV Supra is not going anywhere. Even if the MKV does come in a manual, I don't really see it reaching 1500hp+ as the MKIVs V160.

 

[KahnBB6]

Does anyone know the current reliable torque holding record of the BMW GS6-45BZ 6-speed manual transmission? Since could be the likely candidate for the MKV's top of the range manual gearbox... if it's offered.

 

[Krister]

My personal benchmark for this car is for the motor to reliably hold 800whp / 700wtq on an unopened longblock. The greater concern to me, is will Toyota put a 6 speed manual in this new car and will the transmission and the rest of the driveline be able to reliably handle at least similar output.

Either way my TT 6 sp MKIV Supra is not going anywhere. Even if the MKV does come in a manual, I don't really see it reaching 1500hp+ as the MKIVs V160.

Who needs 1500hp anyway.

My personal MKIV was 3.4 VVTi stroker with 1000whp. Been that route before and I've come to a conclusion that 600-750whp is the sweet spot for me. So if the MKV is gppd for that reliably with less lag than the 2JZ it will be great.

I current have two MKIV's but I would like to have a MKIV and MKV.

 

[SupraGuy88]

As a MKIV owner, i will not be selling mine to obtain the MKV. I am super curious to see what the serialized versions have to offer but realistically they're probably out of my price range. To be honest im so comfortable with my supra i shudder at the idea of selling it to get anything other then a gen 5 viper but even thats a stretch. Im no where near completing my build and ideas i have for the car. It took me years to be able to afford one and i got lucky with mine.

I do want the MKV to do well and i want people to enjoy it the way i enjoy my MKIV but it looks like they are 2 vastly different cars design wise and only share a name.

 

[Supra Turbo]

Who needs 1500hp anyway.

I do.

 

[justbake]

I don't think they will do anything.

The ones who have purely chased high hp numbers in the past have moved on to other platforms and current owners are more likely to be enthusiasts of the model itself. For the owners with the inferiority complex to be invalidated at the fact that another car is faster than their's, they will be the one's who screech "BMW!!" and "JuSt A z4!"

Tada said for those who want a 2jz to buy the cheaper model and swap it to shut up those who are unsatisfied with the BMW options

 

[PerformanceSound]

You guys crack me up! "What will you MKIV guys DO?".... Not give a shit!
The MKIV Supra is a legend and will always be a legend. The car STILL looks gorgeous and better than most modern cars in my opinion. I never bought my Supras because I thought they were going to appreciate in value... I bought them because they are, in my mind, beautiful works of art and fun as hell to drive. Most of the people posting here have probably never owned a mkiv and just want to stir the pot. I am hopeful that the new MKV does well, but it wont affect my MKIV. It's sad that Toyota has taken 17 years to release a successor to our car and decided to use BMW's engine and drivetrain. Again, I would hope the new Supra is vastly superior to a 20+ year old car... who wouldn't?! I'm also sure these "serialized" cars that everyone is waiting on and wanting to buy will not be cheap by a long shot! If everyone on here is already bitching about the entry level cars base price, do you think the top tier will be a couple grand more?!?! If you do, please send me whatever meds you are on, because living in reality is getting old for me as well

Yeah, I think your blowing things out of proportions here...

"What will you MKIV owners do?" doesn't necessarily mean every MKIV owner has to scramble to sell their car....lol. If you or any other MKIV owner decides to keep your cars, great!....all the best to you!

...all I'm saying is get ready for MKV's to eventually walk over MKIV's. It will happen...I never thought so either, but it will happen. The 90's nostalgic appeal of the MKIV will always be there, just like the R34, S15, RX-7, 300ZX, etc... as what though?....garage queens?

The gear these new cars will be packing will be stout!....but, what do I know, I'm just a Nissan "fanboy" driving a Subaru .

 

[RyanGT3RS]

I do.

Might as well go 2000, that number is more impressive than 1500. Lol

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