Nissan Z vs Toyota Supra

[spectre]

People may hate this opinion, but after all it is my opinion, but I think Toyota should have done away with the 4cyl Supra and used that motor in the new GR86. It would have been awesome to get a turbo 86 from the factory, and that boxer motor sucks. Also it seems like a more natural progression to move from the B48 GR86 to the B58 Supra.

The GR86 could have been the more affordable version of the Supra, the 4cyl Supra seems kinda sacrilegious.

Given the current engine in the Toyobaru twins is an NA flat four, I doubt a turbo inline four would even fit.

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[MLG Tofu Shop]

"Slower than even other significantly cheaper and less powerful performance cars"

That should be the Z's tagline.

 

[FLtrackdays]

My take is that - for a modern car - the Supra communicates very well. Like many of you, I enjoy nibbling away at the limits (the car’s and mine!), and the Supra has never surprised me with its handling dynamics.

Is the steering constantly chattering away like an old skool car with hydraulic (or - gasp - manual) steering? No, that’s the nature of ePAS, even when it’s got good weighting, ratio, etc. But - do you instantly know when the Supra is starting to slide? Yep. No mistaking understeer (in any car) or those first few degrees of rotation at the business end. But it’s all so predictable.

When I’m caning the Supra in some favorite haunts, I love the whiff of understeer I feel when turning in sharply (on maintenance throttle). It’s this momentary reminder of the car’s near perfect weight balance, and unless you’re really going too fast the front bites hard as you continue the turn.

I will say this - the Supra did take a little longer than my 86 before I felt comfortable approaching it’s limits. It took me longer to trust. But I also hit the autox earlier in the 86, so I had a safe playground early on. And once you do learn the Supra’s limits - it’s a car that always feels like it’s on your side, unless you do something very boneheaded.

My thinking on the Supra as a “driver’s” car is:
To get the most out of it, you have to be a good driver, respect the car’s power, and trust in the inherent awesomeness of the chassis, eDiff, and tires (yes even PSS).

If you’re deliberate with your inputs and don’t mind oversteer as an essential part of the car’s personality, you’ll love it. The limited exterior view does take getting used to. But if you’re an experienced driver you’re already well versed in looking where you want to go. In a way, the Supra’s batmobile windows force me to really focus on vision when I’m exercising my inner demons. And I’ve had no issues looking out the side windows at a 270* opposite cone while driven in “anger” autox.

Damn dude.... So well said

 

[Supraboi7]

"Slower than even other significantly cheaper and less powerful performance cars"

That should be the Z's tagline.

Fucking brutal

 

[PikkaGTR]

The Z is barely .23 secs faster than a 4200 fwd based 355 hp Acura sedan with a transverse mounted V6
Pretty much everything anti sporty in the TLX Type S
Is more shocking than it being slowe than a GR86

 

[saik]

The Z is barely .23 secs faster than a 4200 fwd based 355 hp Acura sedan with a transverse mounted V6
Pretty much everything anti sporty in the TLX Type S
Is more shocking than it being slowe than a GR86

Also the Acura bone stock makes like 310 whp and 345 ft-lbs, so not only is it at a power and weight disadvantage, but still somehow run the same lap time as the new Z (in the context of TH's track tests)

 

[PikkaGTR]

Also the Acura bone stock makes like 310 whp and 345 ft-lbs, so not only is it at a power and weight disadvantage, but still somehow run the same lap time as the new Z (in the context of TH's track tests)

If the TLX carried like 30 lbs less weight it may have made up that .23 time difference
That's all there is between the Z and a 4200 fwd based full sized sedan
5 gals of fuel weighs ~30 lbs

 

[FLtrackdays]

Y'all notice all the head movement and jerkiness going on in the Z while on track in both YouTube comparisons? I was thinking are they doing that on purpose or is car really that bad... I'm surprised the passenger didn't puke

 

[Emspilot]

Not that I doubt the Z sucks...but I question some of the times on that leaderboard. The Golf R is no slouch with AWD and over 300hp yet it's over 2 seconds slower than the Z? And the Civic Type R w/over 300hp and FWD is over a second faster? Not to mention the TLX issue.
The driver and the track condition (wet/dry/hot/cold) all play into lap times...

 

[RenRed2]

Y'all notice all the head movement and jerkiness going on in the Z while on track in both YouTube comparisons? I was thinking are they doing that on purpose or is car really that bad... I'm surprised the passenger didn't puke

The car has apparent front end dive. Significant and goes along with the softer spring/suspension rates as its a G-T !!

 

[saik]

Not that I doubt the Z sucks...but I question some of the times on that leaderboard. The Golf R is no slouch with AWD and over 300hp yet it's over 2 seconds slower than the Z? And the Civic Type R w/over 300hp and FWD is over a second faster? Not to mention the TLX issue.
The driver and the track condition (wet/dry/hot/cold) all play into lap times... Maybe those test drivers just suck.

Right, it's definitely different track conditions. And the test driver is Thomas which I think has done some amateur racing and is also an instructor. He's probably better than 95% of us. But yeah we should just look at this as one perspective.

I see on the Nissan Z forums, they have returned to calling for Hot laps at Laguna Seca because it's killing them softly the GR86 is above the Z in this chart. lol

 

[gixxersixxerman]

Right, it's definitely different track conditions. And the test driver is Thomas which I think has done some amateur racing and is also an instructor. He's probably better than 95% of us. But yeah we should just look at this as one perspective.

I see on the Nissan Z forums, they have returned to calling for Hot laps at Laguna Seca because it's killing them softly the GR86 is above the Z in this chart. lol

Yeah, Thomas can wheel a car, he isn't a Pro Racer, but he is good enough to get a proper time. Track conditions is what the difference is.

I'm 100000% ready for some Laguna times and the Z... As long as it's with the stock tires first. then I'd like to see it with some good sticky rubber. Like I stated a while ago, just adding sticky rubber isn't always a 100% solution, if the chassis/suspension can't keep up with the sticky rubber it doesn't help as much as one might think. I never thought for a second putting both cars on the same tires would have the Z catching and staying with a Supra. In a drag race maybe some radials might stay with the Supra, but both cars on the same tires the Supra wins every time.

 

[FLtrackdays]

Not that I doubt the Z sucks...but I question some of the times on that leaderboard. The Golf R is no slouch with AWD and over 300hp yet it's over 2 seconds slower than the Z? And the Civic Type R w/over 300hp and FWD is over a second faster? Not to mention the TLX issue.
The driver and the track condition (wet/dry/hot/cold) all play into lap times...

It's quite shocking actually... I would hope they are using the same driver & dry track at least for those comparisons

 

[PikkaGTR]

Not that I doubt the Z sucks...but I question some of the times on that leaderboard. The Golf R is no slouch with AWD and over 300hp yet it's over 2 seconds slower than the Z? And the Civic Type R w/over 300hp and FWD is over a second faster? Not to mention the TLX issue.
The driver and the track condition (wet/dry/hot/cold) all play into lap times...

The golf r is a fwd based car with haldex 4wd so it understeers ......I have driven plethora of mk7s both GTi and golf Rs, stock and modded
Neither are as track focused as the Civic Type R
It's not surprising the golf is slower
Tires make a big difference as well, with the CTR coming with 240 tread wear summers
The golf comes with 300 trear wear IIRC
It's also 3100 vs 3373 lbs

 

[DEupra]

Y'all notice all the head movement and jerkiness going on in the Z while on track in both YouTube comparisons? I was thinking are they doing that on purpose or is car really that bad... I'm surprised the passenger didn't puke

Less nausea when they're going slower and pulling less Gs through the turns in the Z lol

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