To build or not to build?

[razorlab]

I don’t know where you live or the fuel situation there, all I can say is that I’ve been running flex fuel for 2 years and I’ve only had to fill up with regular pump gas once, because I was just about out of gas when I got to the station and they happened to be out of E85 that day. Then again I live in Colorado where E85 is everywhere.

Looks like he lives around Boston.There are like only EIGHT e85 stations in ALL of the New England area:

Compared to you in Colorado:

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[SupraTR]

Compared to you in Colorado:

Thanks for this map as this is reassuring for when I get around to tuning. Only having 91 here in CO is a bummer, but glad to know finding E85 won't be much of a challenge - maybe just out of the way from my normal gas stations.

 

[razorlab]

Thanks for this map as this is reassuring for when I get around to tuning. Only having 91 here in CO is a bummer, but glad to know finding E85 won't be much of a challenge - maybe just out of the way from my normal gas stations.

You can find the interactive version of that here: https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/ethanol_locations.html#/find/nearest?fuel=E85

 

[decodeddiesel]

Hey fam I'm at a crossroads and want to get some input before I make a decision.

2021 locked and stock, I'm coming up on 36,000 painless miles. I enjoy the small and light chassis, it turns heads. I don't drag race and haven't tracked. I take the bikes to Palmer and NHMS occasionally so probably won't take the car. Primary use is summer road trip GT. I'm addicted to fast things.

The problem is Its slow as fuck, to be fair I've grown up on liter bikes and this is my first sports coupe so my perception of speed is ruined. To compound the problem my primary use is road tripping so I refuse to use ethanol or methanol. 93 oct significantly limits my options, investment to even support enough fueling, extremely poor transient response on full frame turbos combined with a low rev limit means poor partial throttle drivability and typically means built motor to support the pressures circling back to 93oct being a octane / knock limitation. Low revs really limit the excitement this power plant can provide.

I had the opportunity to take a ZL1 1LE out with moderate bolt ons, that car is better in every singe way except the 300lbs and its hardly noticeable with 750whp. I'm looking at a $15-25k budget to get a ZL1 or make the Supra what I want. Does this group see the B58 on 93oct making 700-800hp? Would heads meaningfully increase the rev range to overcome the poor rod x bore ratio and make the engine exciting? I feel like my heart hasn't been in the car this whole last year and it showed with a lot less miles driven then the first year and a half.

Choices: How far does $20k get a B58 without E blends or meth? OR Choose a large displacement engine that will make 900 on 93oct?

Why don't you just sell the Supra and buy the Camaro?

Edit: Read the whole thread, my question still stands. I just don't think the Supra is the right car for you and your goals.

Also are you seriously considering 1000+ HP on tires, brakes, and a suspension that's designed for 400 or so? Seems like a bad idea.

 

[humblemoto]

Why don't you just sell the Supra and buy the Camaro?

Edit: Read the whole thread, my question still stands. I just don't think the Supra is the right car for you and your goals.

Also are you seriously considering 1000+ HP on tires, brakes, and a suspension that's designed for 400 or so? Seems like a bad idea.

A major reason I liked the 1LE, factory equipped to handle (relatively)big power.

My car ownership experience is limited to STI/M5/Supra, but have driven a few high horsepower cars (1000-1500) and it’s not until someone wants to 1/4 mile or track their car that is get ruined for street purpose.
I want to pull on the supporting mods thread a bit.
Safety first. I believe tires are everything and will have a 200tw street tire. I do not agree suspension and brakes need changing due to my use-case. Emergency stops from high speeds will at most need an uprated pad and rotor, unless I was tracking thermals shouldn’t be a concern. Suspension also isn’t a major issue, launching causes hop, tracking requires stiff springs and good damping to handle weight transfer.

The goal is a factory car that is driven like a factory car until it’s on the highway for a pull. It’s funny how alien this seems to everyone on the forum, my desire isn’t that unrealistic technically, just fiscally. The Supra is a sports car, it does a lot of things “better” than I need it to, and I believe only has one shortcoming for my goal, specifically displacement.

 

[decodeddiesel]

Ok buddy, whatever you say.

I guess I'm not even sure what the purpose of this thread is if you've already got it all figured out...?

Please take a YouTube video of your first post build 1000+ WHP "pull" on the stock suspension with 200tw tires. I need a good laugh.

 

[SupraTR]

The goal is a factory car that is driven like a factory car until it’s on the highway for a pull. It’s funny how alien this seems to everyone on the forum, my desire isn’t that unrealistic technically, just fiscally. The Supra is a sports car, it does a lot of things “better” than I need it to, and I believe only has one shortcoming for my goal, specifically displacement.

I guess like others I do lean towards the "Supra is probably not the right car for you conclusion" but ignoring all that I do find the question you (I think) posed earlier which was basically "if money is no object what could be accomplished with the b58 in the Supra" intriguing. I'd love to hear real world examples of engine builds and how high the rpm limit can be taken (relatively reliably). Can displacement be increased 3.2L or 3.4L? What about tweaking compression, etc. When pulling all these levers what is the impact to max hp and power under the curve?

Probably warrants a separate thread that I won't bother posting, but to me the interesting question is: If you have $100k to spend entirely on the Supra B58 powertrain, what could be accomplished?

The issue is that engine builds are very few and very far between for this platform (I only know of @zrk on this forum). Maybe we will start to see more of that in 3-5 years. That said considering there are many B58's outside of the Supra I imagine someone has gone down the rabbit hole as to what can be accomplished.

 

[razorlab]

The goal is a factory car that is driven like a factory car until it’s on the highway for a pull. It’s funny how alien this seems to everyone on the forum, my desire isn’t that unrealistic technically, just fiscally.

Curious question, have you built a car with 400-500whp more than stock before?

My last car was a fully built 700hp Mitsubishi Evolution. I was sick of building cars with a ton of compromise, so I set out to build a high powered car that was also worthy on tracks with turns, but was docile around town and I could go get ice cream in it without having to wear ear plugs or book a chiropractic appointment. It was a very hard task to be honest, however I think I did it, but with some compromises. The car still had full interior, leather oem seats, with factory heating. Sunroof, AC, as much creature comfort as an Evo has. I had four mufflers so it wasn't insanely loud, a cat so it didn't smell like crap and suspension that wasn't overly stiff. I built the engine to be higher compression for response, it revved to 9,000 rpm and had 2000cc injectors that I painstakingly tuned to idle and drive just like stock. It took A LOT of time and effort. However it was still a 4cyl so I had to run full E85 and I had a fuel surge tank so it wouldn't fuel starve. That was probably the most fun project I have done over the years so I totally get what you are trying to do. I also had been tuning and modifying Evolutions for almost 20 years at that point so I knew every single little thing about the cars. It would have cost me an utter fortune if I had to depend on someone else.

My point is, I would get something AS CLOSE as possible to your goal, and something that can hit your goal with the least modding as possible.

 

[Evolution]

To the OP -

Building a ZL1 to 1000whp is not a short/simple/cheap/reliable task. Getting it to, call it 800whp, isnt bad and is still manageable on the street but the jump from 800-1000whp is huge. On top of that, have you really driven a 1000whp car on the street? They light the tires off no problem at 120mph.

Also, to the reliability aspect - its not the engine you have to worry about. Its everything else. I have 4 cars sitting within 50ft of me at the moment all making between 1000-1200whp and they have been on the same engine for 5 years but are in the shop monthly with other issues.

 

[suicidaleggroll]

I believe tires are everything and will have a 200tw street tire.

200tw won't do anything. I have 200tw tires on my car (RT660 in 295/35/19) with a measly 500whp and it'll light them up at 50 mph. Unless you want to start your races at 120+ you're going to need aggressive drag radials that wear out every few thousand miles.

 

[razorlab]

200tw won't do anything. I have 200tw tires on my car (RT660 in 295/35/19) with a measly 500whp and it'll light them up at 50 mph. Unless you want to start your races at 120+ you're going to need aggressive drag radials that wear out every few thousand miles.

Agreed. The 200TW tires need to get some heat in them before they grip well.

 

[BraveDemon]

Yeah ok. This thread went from a “will $20k get my Supra to 800 HP to feel like a FBO modded 1LE” to “Can I build the Supra into a 1000 WHP, daily reliable and streetable GT cruiser that can also do an 8 second 1/4 mile.”

The answer to both is no - there is no replacement for displacement (tired phrase but it’s true), and you want a daily streetable 1000 WHP car? Then buy one from a manufacturer that offers one from the factory that way (a la the new Demon from Dodge or w/e it is called).

As others have said, having a built car basically means being your own mechanic and tech 24/7 - you’re constantly having to monitor and deal with other components, wear and tear, etc. I personally don’t consider a car daily-able or streetable if my wife can’t just pick up the keys and take it out for a weekend without any special instructions or needing to fill up with e85 or requiring her to input the Contra cheat code to get it to start. I currently don’t have the time to tinker/troubleshoot/etc a heavily modded car, so they are all stock for now.

OP in looking at your other posts, just get a Tesla Plaid and call it a day. Seems like that would fit the bill for what you’re looking for.

 

[AJRMKV]

If you want a useable street car for under 100k including mods with 1000whp, buy a used GTR and build it.

Other cars can do it, but you won’t be able to have your cake and eat it too if you want reliability, power, useability and budget simultaneously.

 

[humblemoto]

Thank you all for the support and feedback, the Supra is on its way with a new family!

I did enjoy all the, "is that a Supra?" nonsense, the great handling and reliability packaged into a car for the cost.

I ordered a ZL1, it'll be six months for delivery, it may or may not be all the things I need it to be. I have to try.

In the mean time instead of Supra mod money I grabbed a new bike, just incase the ZL1 is too slow. Brandy new M1000R delivered next week!


P.S. I'll have a Eventuri CAI getting listed shortly for a steal for anyone that wants more WHOOSH noises! <3

 

[Zcarmenb28]

Didn’t read all the posts. Here’s my thoughts. 220 whp on a bike is super fast, yes, but as speeds increase drag becomes the dominant force. Super bikes trail off at high speeds faster than a high hp car because a higher portion of the available hp is used to offset the exponentially increasing drag. Yes, it takes a lot of hp to match, but less hp to match at 140+ mph in a car. That said, you asked what’s the best you can do for $100k. I’m gonna say either 6th Gen ZL1 + 30-35k in mods or a 20+ GT500 with $10-15k in mods. A FBO GT500 is no joke. Intake, pulley, ported blower, tube, headers, exhaust = Very fast car. Or you can go fuel+heads+cam+magnusson 2650 on the ZL1 and make crazy (car) power. I have a ZL1 and ‘22 Supra 3.0 but massive respect for the predator engine in the GT500.

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