šŸ‘£ Official: Toyota Announces Manual Transmission Supra!

Only interested if it comes in manual?


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mkivalex

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As much as I have always advocated for a manual option, it is a little telling that we have not heard much of any shops aside from that first one that EAG did the 6 speed swap on. Maybe the car really just is more enjoyable with the ZF
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alan7467

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I had the DSG in my mk7 GTI. It was excellent. Loved that car.
I had an MK7 GTI. Brilliant car. Loved the DSG. One of the best cars per dollar made.
I replaced my MK7 GTI DSG with my manual Golf R. While I definitely had my issues with that car and transmission I'd say I much prefer the DSG and honestly regret the "upgrade" I made because of its absence.
 

Blaque Diamond Wheels

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Exactly. You have 20,000 internet turds whining and crying how "they would buy a Supra if it had a manual" and 19,999 of them need to buy their Wonder Bread with a credit card. If a manual was financially viable, it would have one.
I know having no stick shift can be a downer but it's not like Toyota designers and execs haven't really thought about it. There's still science behind why we ended up with these options
 

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I made a joke that it would be funny if an OEM made a 6 speed that is all electronic - so you aren't even manually operating a clutch, your pedal just switches a switch to engage/disengate like my iRacing setup =)
Toyota gotchu
 

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I keep reading this line that "cars are too fast for manuals these days", and it makes no sense whatsoever.
A manual is driven as fast as the driver wishes it, it is not dictated to the driver by any other means.
Many cars in the past have been high-bhp manuals and they've developed a great reputation for being so. My old MkIV Supra was tuned to well over 400bhp and I drove numerous other MkIV's and other performance cars with well over 600bhp, all those manuals gearboxes suited those high-bhp levels, the driver simply chose to accelerate and change gear as fast or as slow as he/she wished.

The problem that has crept in with all these manual vs auto comparisons is that there seems to be an irrational focus on the 0-60 time.
The 0-60 time is a good bragging note for those that feel it is important to them, but for manual gearbox drivers this is not really going to be anything of concern as long as the in-gear acceleration is good enough.

I think Toyota will have lost many many MkV sales due to there not being a manual gearbox option. With competition from the likes of Nissan now giving manual buyers another option I fear that the MkV Supra will start to fade as just being another 'digital' offering for the i-phone generation. (No offence aimed at any of you guys, this is just my frustration with Toyota's bean counters venting out).
 
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Blaque Diamond Wheels

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I keep reading this line that "cars are too fast for manuals these days", and it makes no sense whatsoever.
A manual is driven as fast as the driver wishes it, it is not dictated to the driver by any other means.
Many cars in the past have been high-bhp manuals and they've developed a great reputation for being so. My old MkIV Supra was tuned to well over 400bhp and I drove numerous other MkIV's and other performance cars with well over 600bhp, all those manuals gearboxes suited those high-bhp levels, the driver simply chose to accelerate and change gear as fast or as slow as he/she wished.

The problem that has crept in with all these manual vs auto comparisons is that there seems to be an irrational focus on the 0-60 time.
The 0-60 time is a good bragging note for those that feel it is important to them, but for manual gearbox drivers this is not really going to be anything of concern as log as the in-gear acceleration is good enough.

I think Toyota will have lost many many MkV sales due to there not being a manual gearbox option. With competition from the likes of Nissan now giving manual buyers another option I fear that the MkV Supra will start to fade as just being another 'digital' offering for the i-phone generation. (No offence aimed at any of you guys, this is just my frustration with Toyota's bean counters venting out).
I agree with what you said about some drivers loving the whole experience of rowing the gears and feeling the power. It can make us feel more connected with the car
 

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So let's say Toyota does make a Manual for the Supra

What are the odds that Toyota prices it like, you know a Supra with a manual?
 

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So let's say Toyota does make a Manual for the Supra

What are the odds that Toyota prices it like, you know a Supra with a manual?
If its a normal production model along auto, it should be cheaper, manuals are always cheaper. But imo if they will do it, they gonna come up with special edition limited to XXXX pieces for more $$$.
 

AirAlexie

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I keep reading this line that "cars are too fast for manuals these days", and it makes no sense whatsoever.
A manual is driven as fast as the driver wishes it, it is not dictated to the driver by any other means.
Many cars in the past have been high-bhp manuals and they've developed a great reputation for being so. My old MkIV Supra was tuned to well over 400bhp and I drove numerous other MkIV's and other performance cars with well over 600bhp, all those manuals gearboxes suited those high-bhp levels, the driver simply chose to accelerate and change gear as fast or as slow as he/she wished.

The problem that has crept in with all these manual vs auto comparisons is that there seems to be an irrational focus on the 0-60 time.
The 0-60 time is a good bragging note for those that feel it is important to them, but for manual gearbox drivers this is not really going to be anything of concern as long as the in-gear acceleration is good enough.

I think Toyota will have lost many many MkV sales due to there not being a manual gearbox option. With competition from the likes of Nissan now giving manual buyers another option I fear that the MkV Supra will start to fade as just being another 'digital' offering for the i-phone generation. (No offence aimed at any of you guys, this is just my frustration with Toyota's bean counters venting out).
yes and no.

we are forgetting that Toyota has focus groups that they invest millions into. Of the Supra was to come out with a manual, itā€™ll sit. Why ? Because NO ONE is going to want to buy a $55K sports car that will loose to a Hyundai Veloster. A manual transmission is slower than an automatic. This is not a topic of debate. If you want a manual, got buy a GT-86, it has a brilliant manual gearbox. The Supra is for the refined who canā€™t be bothered with rowing gears.

dude even the car illiterate give props to how fast the supra shifts.

the supra doesnā€™t need a manual, what it needs is a Targa Top and a better sound system. Things that will actually make it a better all around driving experience.

the transmission it has is one of the best in the world that shifts lightning fast. Shifting w/paddles on sport mode in the Supra gives off an awesome vibe. It feels refined, expensive and you loose no power !
 

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So let's say Toyota does make a Manual for the Supra

What are the odds that Toyota prices it like, you know a Supra with a manual?
I think it would be cheaper on premium/base models but the dealers will try to play games. Itā€™s also very possible that there would rarely be a manual Supra sitting on a lot.
 

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Very possible they go the BMW route and just don't change the price for a manual.
 

Loco38SUP

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yes and no.

we are forgetting that Toyota has focus groups that they invest millions into. Of the Supra was to come out with a manual, itā€™ll sit. Why ? Because NO ONE is going to want to buy a $55K sports car that will loose to a Hyundai Veloster. A manual transmission is slower than an automatic. This is not a topic of debate. If you want a manual, got buy a GT-86, it has a brilliant manual gearbox. The Supra is for the refined who canā€™t be bothered with rowing gears.

dude even the car illiterate give props to how fast the supra shifts.

the supra doesnā€™t need a manual, what it needs is a Targa Top and a better sound system. Things that will actually make it a better all around driving experience.

the transmission it has is one of the best in the world that shifts lightning fast. Shifting w/paddles on sport mode in the Supra gives off an awesome vibe. It feels refined, expensive and you loose no power !
Yes 100% agree! A targa would be perfect for this car in the summer. The stereo I can live with but a Targa or even a moon roof would be sweet.

-RJM
 

Blaque Diamond Wheels

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yes and no.

we are forgetting that Toyota has focus groups that they invest millions into. Of the Supra was to come out with a manual, itā€™ll sit. Why ? Because NO ONE is going to want to buy a $55K sports car that will loose to a Hyundai Veloster. A manual transmission is slower than an automatic. This is not a topic of debate. If you want a manual, got buy a GT-86, it has a brilliant manual gearbox. The Supra is for the refined who canā€™t be bothered with rowing gears.

dude even the car illiterate give props to how fast the supra shifts.

the supra doesnā€™t need a manual, what it needs is a Targa Top and a better sound system. Things that will actually make it a better all around driving experience.

the transmission it has is one of the best in the world that shifts lightning fast. Shifting w/paddles on sport mode in the Supra gives off an awesome vibe. It feels refined, expensive and you loose no power !
Performance-wise, it makes a lot of sense to stick to automatic. It eliminates the delay caused by your hands rowing the gears, as well as disengaging and engaging the clutch back.

But from the perspective of driving experience, there will always be enthusiasts who are going to miss the stick shift. It's a matter of preference
 

muckduck

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What I meant about cars being too fast wasn't about capabilities, so maybe I misspoke.

What i meant was that, since cars these days are so fast and boosted, the constant pull + sound of really fast shifts that the automatics provide is actually a lot of fun and offsets the "throwing gears" fun that my other cars had.

The best sound is the sound of a GT3 snapping through gears. The manual sounds cool, but something a bit extra about the instant shifts of a GT3 at 9k RPMs....

We all drive these cars for fun, and the fun factor that autos bring these days is, can, at times, overcome my desire for manuals.
 

KahnBB6

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dude even the car illiterate give props to how fast the supra shifts.
The non-enthusiast "car illiterate" types are also the same people who are totally okay that Ford released an EV crossover/SUV that looks exactly like an Escape other than the front bumper and tail lights... and badged it as a Mustang.

It obviously looks nothing at all like a Mustang and has nothing at all in common with a Mustang other than the front bumper and tail lights but because the GT trim level can do a 3.5 second 0-60 it gets popular praise.

And there is *nothing wrong* with a fully electric SUV crossover actually being good with such excellent acceleration capability.

But it's a family SUV crossover thing.... not an actual Mustang. Forget ICE vs EV driveline comparisons-- that's not what I'm talking about.

Ford undoubtedly did a lot of focus group testing of what general public reaction would be to taking a small-ish electric family SUV and badging it as a "Mustang". Because almost everything is an SUV or crossover now and because ANY crossover or SUV sells in droves for some reason no matter how good or terrible or mis-named it is, Ford of course had the focus group numbers to push through such a ridiculous plan to sell something that so obviously is not a Mustang... as a "Mustang". At least it's still alongside the actual Mustang coupe.

And again, I'm not talking about the Mustang coupe having an internal combustion engine versus the Mach-E crossover having motors and a big battery pack. That's irrelevant.

Point being, Toyota did their own focus group testing for the MKV but focus group results do not always point to the right design parameters and/or options for extremely niche enthusiast products.

The best and most memorable enthusiast products that people remember and still desire after they are new usually were pushed through several stages of conception, planning, design and production trying to stay true to a passionate vision and idea.

A case in point would be the GR Yaris with its bespoke body design, unique engine, AWD system and 6-speed manual and by extension the related upcoming Corolla GRMN vehicles with the GR Yaris' driveline.

There is no rational reason any focus group would support that Toyota *needed* to design and build such a unique and low volume car with those specifications (and a manual gearbox no less). It obviously was only possible because of the 25,000 units slated for sale in Japan, Europe, Australia, New Zealand and other markets... and the FWD NA + CVT version of the GR Yaris two door chassis... and because the Corolla lineup was also planned ahead of time to get the same full driveline in the hatchback and wagon versions for the world including the U.S. and Canada.

Amortizing costs in those ways is the only reason Toyota bean counters allowed the GR Yaris to happen at all. I highly doubt that focus group research supported an expensive, quirky, 2800lb, bare-bones, two-door hatchback with little storage space, a turbo engine mated ONLY to a 6-speed manual gearbox and an AWD system that gave it decent but not impressive fuel economy when compared to your average cheaper to make and easier to sell auto/CVT AWD crossover SUV design.

The BRZ and GT/GR86 were only able to be made and continue into a second generation (but only very close to the original design with only minor changes into gen2) with such a niche set of specifications including a manual transmission option because two companies shared the costs with each other.

Mazda partnered with Fiat for the 124 Spyder and Miata and now that Mazda is going it alone for their little roadster I have no idea where that leaves its own future.

For several reasons, and I'm sure that some of them come down to what BMW wants to offer in their Z4, M2 and M3/4 lineups versus the Supra MKV, two collaborating companies didn't immediately greenlight an extremely obvious manual transmission option in a niche high performance two seater turbo performance coupe. The parts bin materials needed to offer a 6-speed manual Supra are mostly there already... if both companies want to allow it for production.

I think it's great that the ZF8 8HP is such a phenomenal automatic transmission even rivaling many existing DCT's. I also cannot argue that so many people who are among the niche sportscar buying crowd these days seem to buy some flavor of automatic in droves over any manuals. I also cannot argue with the difficulties of integrating modern active safety systems with manuals, with integrating modern emission systems with random shifts that manuals present and I cannot argue with the increasingly stringent noise regulations that have already begun dictating what gear ratios can be offered in manual transmission cars.

The arrows being thrown at the traditional manual transmission in sports cars and hot hatches are not just coming from focus groups largely made up of the automatic and SUV loving general public.

At the end of the day I feel the MKV is a fantastic sports car and a fantastic Supra. No question.

But when the GT/GR86, GR Yaris and upcoming Corolla GRMN all offer or exclusively comes with manual transmissions it seems that Toyota with all its focus group research is quite well aware of the desire and demand for traditional manual transmission options in all their sportscar and sport hatch models.

The company will do what it will do in regards to whether the Supra MKV will ever get a manual transmission option or not before production ends. But the company definitely knows there is a huge following for their flagship icon sports car who would like a manual option even while there are many Supra MKV fans and owners who are happy with the ZF8 auto.

Like the GR Yaris, Toyota did not have to build this car at all in an age where everything eventually gets turned into an SUV or crossover that looks and feels like every other SUV and crossover because the strong sales of such things seem to grow endlessly.

In a few years it will not matter whether or not a niche enthusiast vehicle has a manual transmission option because for the most part transmissions as we currently know them will begin to be phased out since most electric motor drivelines will not need them. All of these manual vs auto vs DCT arguments for new vehicles will become moot by that time.

But we're not quite there yet. We have a little window of time wherein passion projects by automakers can still offer "silly" and "fun" things such as manual transmissions in high performance sports cars and hot hatches.

Once we get past the A90 generation a manual transmission argument will be irrelevant. It will become irrelevant for most of the niche enthusiast cars by then. For the moment I see nothing at all wrong with the notion of a last hurrah.

As someone else pointed out, there are currently many enthusiast cars on sale right now that offer a manual transmission exclusively and as an option. And that's an excellent point.

At the end of the day the ZF8 8HP backed Supra MKV is an excellent sports car package that is extremely difficult to fault (other than the ECU tuning lockout issues) while at the same time it is such a special and iconic sports car that it legitimately deserves a manual transmission option alongside the ZF8 while this generation is still produced.

Toyota and BMW will do what they wish to with the rest of the Z4 and MKV production years. I'm glad the car exists again in a new generation even if they changed nothing more. I just have and still do expect a little more on the option sheet before MY2026.
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