2023 MT Supra vs 2023 AT Supra

[Andrew4Supra]

I do like how durable they are with my sweat from gym or track. Very easy to scrub off marks as well. My wife and I used to order BMWs with the “pleather” . Forgo the feel for wear and tear.

~ Once you have an M3 or MB with supple napa leather all else is subpar I guess.

Great call on the clean up for tracking the car etc with the heavy duty vinyl for 409 clean up.

Sponsored

 

[FLtrackdays]

~ Once you have an M3 or MB with supple napa leather all else is subpar I guess.

Great call on the clean up for tracking the car etc with the heavy duty vinyl for 409 clean up.

We had a white 4 door M3 with beige leatherette. I wish we would have kept that car There’s no doubt a softer leather would have felt nicer. I’m just lucky I married a girl that fights me for every dime spent and somehow convinced me I’d “survive” with a base M3. Believe me dude, I deserve the best (in my mind)

 

[trev_rs]

Admittedly I actually love the Z4, if I wasn’t going for a mainly track car. I’ve never looked inside the Z4. But will take your word for it. She’s stunning outside imo. Since I could only buy one additional play toy, between the weight & price - the Supra was a win win - for me

The Supra taught us that the Z4 deserves more attn and respect than it gets. I passed on an older sDrive35is years ago assuming it was rubbish. I might not have a Supra now if I'd gone ahead.

 

[trev_rs]

Now, thats not to say I'm claiming the six speed manual is going to beat the automatic in every scenario outside of those, or vice versa, but the auto's advantage begins to shrink on a track environment where shifts are much further spread out.

The GT4 Supras are still being built and delivered with the ZF and the 8th gear locked out. If the manual was capable of putting out faster lap times, they'd move over to it.

 

[ColonelAdama]

The Supra taught us that the Z4 deserves more attn and respect than it gets. I passed on an older sDrive35is years ago assuming it was rubbish. I might not have a Supra now if I'd gone ahead.

Interestingly, I almost pulled the trigger on a Z4 M just before the manual Supra was announced.

M3 engine + 6MT in a proper roadster? Seemed like an awesome package. (and cheaper than equivalent 981s)

Still glad I went Supra since the B58 is a far better engine, but definitely wish there was a targa or roadster with MT.

Supra MT swaps into Z4s when?

 

[noogie]

I don’t think any professional race team wants a traditional manual

The GT4 Supras are still being built and delivered with the ZF and the 8th gear locked out. If the manual was capable of putting out faster lap times, they'd move over to it.

whats the reasoning for the 8th gear lockout? Compliance with racing regulations?

 

[trev_rs]

whats the reasoning for the 8th gear lockout? Compliance with racing regulations?

Yes, GT4 max 7 gears

 

[kaj]

I don’t think any professional race team wants a traditional manual

We keep bringing this up, as evidenced by pretty much all race cars now being paddle shift, even on a sequential box, with no lift and auto blip. A manual car is slower any time *ANY SHIFTING* is done. But we still have people here saying a manual can theoretically be as fast in situations that never happen.
It's entertaining, though.

 

[BMWAF]

We keep bringing this up, as evidenced by pretty much all race cars now being paddle shift, even on a sequential box, with no lift and auto blip. A manual car is slower any time *ANY SHIFTING* is done. But we still have people here saying a manual can theoretically be as fast in situations that never happen.
It's entertaining, though.

Nah.. You're right, it's just logic that the automatic in 2023 is faster but I have a theory..

While it pains me to say it, after having driven the manual a bit, well.. the manual very much feels like an automatic. I mean, yes there's a clutch and yes there's gears to row.. but its not at all a challenging experience. And anyone who says this manual is a pain to drive in traffic is soft as melted butter.

It may sound counter intuitive - and this may be a modern car manual problem rather than a Supra specific problem - but the whole manual experience seems a bit synthetic. What I mean is that in the Supra it really doesn't matter what gear I'm in or where in the rev range I am as above 1800RPM, it's monstrously quick everywhere. I know that in many ways this is a good thing but it also largely defeats the purpose of gearing.

As a direct comparison, my 2008 Type R had such limited torque (and power for that matter) that if I wasn't in the power band I wasn't going anywhere. Keeping her in the top end of the rev range and shifting perfectly was key. If I got anything wrong, I was painfully slow. This made me get better over time and it was this challenge that really brought the manual experience to the fore for me.

In the Supra, shifting the manual feels like a bit of an afterthought and quite insincere - like those electronic manuals everyone is developing for electric cars. It really doesn't matter how good or bad I am at shifting or maintaining the revs because the car feels like it has been designed to get the job done regardless. Apart from the horrible 1-2 shift which requires a deft touch (and lets face it, a quick prayer), a shaved down monkey could drive the manual Supra quickly. And that's shit for everyone.. except for shaved down monkeys I guess. Which brings me to the idea that this ease of driving quickly might go some way to explaining why some people (erroneously) claim the manual is as quick (or quicker) than the automatic.

When I saw all those initial track reviews where "reporters" basically just left the manual car in third or fourth and drove around the entire track at full speed I knew something wasn't quite right.

Am I glad I bought the manual: Yes. Am I glad I didn't buy an automatic? In many ways I think maybe I did.

 

[kaj]

Nah.. You're right, it's just logic that the automatic in 2023 is faster but I have a theory..

While it pains me to say it, after having driven the manual a bit, well.. the manual very much feels like an automatic. I mean, yes there's a clutch and yes there's gears to row.. but its not at all a challenging experience. And anyone who says this manual is a pain to drive in traffic is soft as melted butter.

It may sound counter intuitive - and this may be a modern car manual problem rather than a Supra specific problem - but the whole manual experience seems a bit synthetic. What I mean is that in the Supra it really doesn't matter what gear I'm in or where in the rev range I am as above 1800RPM, it's monstrously quick everywhere. I know that in many ways this is a good thing but it also largely defeats the purpose of gearing.

As a direct comparison, my 2008 Type R had such limited torque (and power for that matter) that if I wasn't in the power band I wasn't going anywhere. Keeping her in the top end of the rev range and shifting perfectly was key. If I got anything wrong, I was painfully slow. This made me get better over time and it was this challenge that really brought the manual experience to the fore for me.

In the Supra, shifting the manual feels like a bit of an afterthought and quite insincere - like those electronic manuals everyone is developing for electric cars. It really doesn't matter how good or bad I am at shifting or maintaining the revs because the car feels like it has been designed to get the job done regardless. Apart from the horrible 1-2 shift which requires a deft touch (and lets face it, a quick prayer), a shaved down monkey could drive the manual Supra quickly. And that's shit for everyone.. except for shaved down monkeys I guess. Which brings me to the idea that this ease of driving quickly might go some way to explaining why some people (erroneously) claim the manual is as quick (or quicker) than the automatic.

When I saw all those initial track reviews where "reporters" basically just left the manual car in third or fourth and drove around the entire track at full speed I knew something wasn't quite right.

Am I glad I bought the manual: Yes. Am I glad I didn't buy an automatic? In many ways I think maybe I did.

Agreed. We've also been saying the MT in a Supra is for the novelty of shifting only. The car doesn't need a manual nor built for it. It's an afterthought. Which is, of course, great since that's what everyone is after. It scratches the itch just fine.
I have a Keurig and a French press at home. I insist on the press because it's fun. I don't do it because it's faster.

 

[NocturnalEmber]

The GT4 Supras are still being built and delivered with the ZF and the 8th gear locked out. If the manual was capable of putting out faster lap times, they'd move over to it.

I just said " Now, thats not to say I'm claiming the six speed manual is going to beat the automatic in every scenario outside of those, or vice versa." so I'm curious as to what you are mentioning that for?

Moving over to a different transmission in a specific racing class/series is likely not going to be that feasible even if it was an option from multiple standpoints. That aside, there's been times where the manual transmission has clocked faster lap times than the auto box, and vice versa, does it really matter at this point? If people want an automatic, let them get one, I'm perfectly happy over here not running on auto pilot myself, but that's what I was looking for.

 

[FLtrackdays]

I just said " Now, thats not to say I'm claiming the six speed manual is going to beat the automatic in every scenario outside of those, or vice versa." so I'm curious as to what you are mentioning that for?

Moving over to a different transmission in a specific racing class/series is likely not going to be that feasible even if it was an option from multiple standpoints. That aside, there's been times where the manual transmission has clocked faster lap times than the auto box, and vice versa, does it really matter at this point? If people want an automatic, let them get one, I'm perfectly happy over here not running on auto pilot myself, but that's what I was looking for.

I’m with ya. I don’t want to drive on auto pilot either. I use the paddle shifter almost exclusively. However there are times that I push the drive stick up or down to change gears. Such as backing out of the driveway with the wheel turned > 45 degrees.

F1 qualifying today at Silverstone. It’ll be fun to watching those guys ripping through 8 gears a lightning speeds! Yet I still love my little MX5 manual. Like @lmfao said, it’s a blast when you get a lower powered car‘s gears just right and stay on her sweet spot, so to speak

 

[NocturnalEmber]

I’m with ya. I don’t want to drive on auto pilot either. I use the paddle shifter almost exclusively. However there are times that I push the drive stick up or down to change gears. Such as backing out of the driveway with the wheel turned > 45 degrees.

F1 qualifying today at Silverstone. It’ll be fun to watching those guys ripping through 8 gears a lightning speeds! Yet I still love my little MX5 manual. Like @lmfao said, it’s a blast when you get a lower powered car‘s gears just right and stay on her sweet spot, so to speak

Paddle shifters just dont' do it for me. I will say (and this is only my opinion, so I'm obviously not expecting people to agree because its specific to my situation) that paddle shifters are a significant improvement over a regular slushbox though.

I really just like the connection and articulation thats required with a manual box, it gives me something to do while I'm driving. Of course I may be a bit biased, I've never owned an automatic car in my life, but driven many. I haven't felt the need to own one for heavy traffic, etc, because I still like working the clutch, etc.

 

[kaj]

. Of course I may be a bit biased, I've never owned an automatic car in my life, but driven many. I haven't felt the need to own one for heavy traffic, etc, because I still like working the clutch, etc.

100% of us used to say the same until we drove a *good* AT.
And almost 100% of us still own a MT car for the reasons you mention. Just not THIS car.

 

[NocturnalEmber]

100% of us used to say the same until we drove a *good* AT.
And almost 100% of us still own a MT car for the reasons you mention. Just not THIS car.

I understand what you are saying; I've driven cars that one could argue are equipped with far better transmissions than the ZF 8 speed (DCT, PDK, etc), and I honestly still wouldn't own one. They are obviously good at what they do but they do something I'd rather do myself.

Sponsored