2JZ-No-Sh*t
Well-Known Member
From his own words, he was also wrong when he said the US Z4 would be the only one to receive the B58B30O1.You do know he was wrong about the 4 banger Supra coming to the US.
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From his own words, he was also wrong when he said the US Z4 would be the only one to receive the B58B30O1.You do know he was wrong about the 4 banger Supra coming to the US.
Of course the engine is all BMW but you havenāt shown anything that BMW didnāt give Toyota access to tune various components like engine, transmission, and suspension. Iāve been on Bimmerpost since 2010 and have read ynguldynās posts on a regular basis. He has never said Toyota didnāt tune the engine.Over and over, people on this forum dramatically overstate the involvement Toyota had in the car with no basis at all (beyond wishful thinking). Let's all come back when the 385 HP Supra comes out next year with the B58D. If that doesn't prove the engine is all BMW, I don't know what will. Of course then someone will probably say that Toyota tuned the B58D too and the US Z4 is also running a Toyota tune.
Until then I guess we just need to keep repeating the mantra, "There's no engineer but Tada-san. There's no car but Supra. There's no internet but supramkv.com."
Yeah, but overall he has a better track record than Scott26. I'm still waiting on that carbon fiber tub chassis.You do know he was wrong about the 4 banger Supra coming to the US.
No one is arguing that the engine isn't BMW. We're talking about the claim that the ECU has not been tuned by Toyota. We all know for a fact the Supra is currently pushing more than 335hp. Those figures are a "gentlemen's agreement" between the two companies to rate this B58 variant as 335hp like on every other BMW platform regardless of tune. There is no way in hell the Supra at 3400lbs B58B30M1 is tuned the same as the X5/6/7 at +5000lbs B58B30M1 even though they're 100% mechanically identical and have the same engine code.Let's all come back when the 385 HP Supra comes out next year with the B58D. If that doesn't prove the engine is all BMW, I don't know what will.
Because it doesn't prove anything. Just because it is an off the shelf motor, doesn't mean Toyota didn't help the design before it was put on the metaphorical shelf. I am not saying that Toyota did however, just saying that is is not proof by any meansLet's all come back when the 385 HP Supra comes out next year with the B58D. If that doesn't prove the engine is all BMW, I don't know what will.
He doesn't give market breakdowns there. I only ever remember him saying the 30i model "might" come to the US, but then he later said preproduction models were built, but slim chance it would be a US model for 2020. Everything we know about Toyota's 2020 marketing confirms that.Yeah you may want to go farther back than that..
https://www.supramkv.com/threads/mk...nes-transmission-colors-interiors-wheels.733/
BMW is historically all over the place with HP ratings on the B58, so this is not new. The B58M in the X3/X4 M40i is rated at 355HP crank by BMW USA but Dinan measured 354HP at the wheels and 445HP at the crank **. This is a common situation with the B58. I don't think there is any extra obfuscation going on due to an agreement with Toyota, since it's already been this way with BMW's own line. Dinan's conclusion (second link below) is that the BMW factory tune is extremely good on the high output B58 variants (they couldn't do much better). BMW dials it back on other models for marketing and model positioning.No one is arguing that the engine isn't BMW. We're talking about the claim that the ECU has not been tuned by Toyota. We all know for a fact the Supra is currently pushing more than 335hp. Those figures are a "gentlemen's agreement" between the two companies to rate this B58 variant as 335hp like on every other BMW platform regardless of tune. There is no way in hell the Supra at 3400lbs B58B30M1 is tuned the same as the X5/6/7 at +5000lbs B58B30M1 even though they're 100% mechanically identical and have the same engine code.
The "B58D" won't be any different. It's going to be rated at 382hp but tuned differently for each platform and I would bet Toyota is going to be doing all the tuning for the Supra.
I'm glad you brought that up. Yes, because on the top of the thread he clearly states that everything he is listing is US only.. He also notes that 20i Supra is EU only. That is clearly wrong. The 20i Supra is only sold in Japan. The US, EU, AU, NZ, CDN, and SA are I6 only. Lastly on that thread one of our mods inquired clarification about the Supra's drivetrain. Maybe @Supra93 can chime in.He doesn't give market breakdowns there. I only ever remember him saying the 30i model "might" come to the US, but then he later said preproduction models were built, but slim chance it would be a US model for 2020. Everything we know about Toyota's 2020 marketing confirms that.
The pre-production information comes from VINs he has access to look at and decode (which also shows they later built a US market Supra with B58D, hinting at the 2021 upgrade). That hints at what has been built for testing/etc. What later happens is a matter of reading the tea leaves inside BMW manufacturing. Nobody on the outside has either type of information. So when I look at the big picture, I consider his information to be high confidence. Everything else we have access to is gossip or at the very least, an order of magnitude lower confidence. It's that simple.
Again, nothing new.Vins W003500 through W003527 confirm 30i (4 cylinder) models were made for USA
https://www.mdecoder.com/decode/W003500
https://www.mdecoder.com/decode/W003527
One would think that, correct me if I'm wrong but the R35 is pretty aerodynamic despite looking like a fugly @ss brick.I would expect the Z4 aerodynamics to be worse at higher speeds (it looks like more of a brick) but that's just a suspicion (has anyone published drag coefficient for either car?). It wouldn't matter in a 1/4 mile but at higher speeds it could become a factor.
I want what you're smoking. How in the hell can you sit there and say another manufacturer (BMW) is going to dictate an ECU tune on another brands (Toyota) car. No way in hell did BMW set the tune for it. Toyota would have done extensive testing and tuned it exactly how they wanted with the available ECU giving to them. I don't get why this "BMW tuned their ECU" is your hill you're trying to die on. It doesn't make any sense.Over and over, people on this forum dramatically overstate the involvement Toyota had in the car with no basis at all (beyond wishful thinking). Let's all come back when the 385 HP Supra comes out next year with the B58D. If that doesn't prove the engine is all BMW, I don't know what will. Of course then someone will probably say that Toyota tuned the B58D too and the US Z4 is also running a Toyota tune.
Until then I guess we just need to keep repeating the mantra, "There's no engineer but Tada-san. There's no car but Supra. There's no internet but supramkv.com."
Are we reading the same thread? That was like 3 people. The rest are making excuses because its a heavier roadster vs a lighter coupe and wait for the US Z4 vs the US Supra.SMH, I fail to see where they are butt hurt. Most are actually laughing at BMW saying that Toyota built a better BMW than they did.....