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Clutch Slipping on stock A91 MT...

bushido

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Yes. The dampers themselves are different parts from 2020, and 2021-22, and the AVS has been reprogrammed with each revision as well. Technically, the 23 is version 3.0 of everything.
hmm, interesting. must be why, if one researches springs, one will find reports of springs being too stiff or no issues at all. i've ridden in a 2021 with H&R and felt no discomfort, while on here i read someone stating the H&R were too stiff on their 2020 :hmm: pretty awesome that it's a noticeable difference. 2023 must be fantastic
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UYCR

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Wish I had driven a 20-22 MY to compare, but the diff in the 23 is ridiculous! Traction for days! The hairpin feature is no joke either, car rotates wonderfully powering out of a tight corner. Almost feels like you're starting to lose the rear but its completely planted.

Even passengers have made comments about it during mountain runs. They think its starting to slide, but I have full confidence in the grip. Only other car I drove where the corner exit accel felt as good was the M2 Comp.

My only complaint with the car is that I have noticed some degree of bump steer. And that was before I even knew what bump-steer was, so its not placebo. Apparently a known issue on these cars. Not pleasant for the wheel to jerk sideways over a relatively mild bump at higher speeds. that and the steering wheel vibration at 60-62 mph... seriously???
I think that you can get rid of most of the bumpsteer with a better alignment. From what I've read and seen in videos, with a proper/performance oriented alignment, you should be able to maintain everything within good behaving range as the suspension travels. At least in the rear the oem parts allow for some adjustment which is also where the toe changes a bit more during the suspension travel.
 

Joker328

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I think that you can get rid of most of the bumpsteer with a better alignment. From what I've read and seen in videos, with a proper/performance oriented alignment, you should be able to maintain everything within good behaving range as the suspension travels. At least in the rear the oem parts allow for some adjustment which is also where the toe changes a bit more during the suspension travel.
This is my hope. I haven't gotten it on track yet, but I've noticed even just going around fast sweeping curves on the road if you hit a big bump the car wants to rotate. I'm hoping I can give it enough camber and toe-in in the rear to keep it from becoming a real issue. Also, I think keeping stock ride height will help, as lowering can supposedly fuck up your geometry and exacerbate the issue.
 

Eastwood

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Just had my Clutch Delay Valve removed by @Speed Logic

Immediate thoughts, things felt a lot smoother, especially between 1-2. I didn't get to really get on it but I'll be doing some driving this weekend.

Currently at 770ish miles. Whatever is causing this premature slipping must be material related or mechanical somewhere else. I don't think this mod is the solution but hope it helps in the long run.
 

Chong

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Just had my Clutch Delay Valve removed by @Speed Logic

Immediate thoughts, things felt a lot smoother, especially between 1-2. I didn't get to really get on it but I'll be doing some driving this weekend.

Currently at 770ish miles. Whatever is causing this premature slipping must be material related or mechanical somewhere else. I don't think this mod is the solution but hope it helps in the long run.
I definitely want to hear more about this and what the process was of removing it!
 

Traxion

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Yes. The dampers themselves are different parts from 2020, and 2021-22, and the AVS has been reprogrammed with each revision as well. Technically, the 23 is version 3.0 of everything.
Do you know have any idea on if that can be installed onto a 2023 with no issue and if it's possible to get that programming done as well?
 

FuzzyRev

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Just had my Clutch Delay Valve removed by @Speed Logic

Immediate thoughts, things felt a lot smoother, especially between 1-2. I didn't get to really get on it but I'll be doing some driving this weekend.

Currently at 770ish miles. Whatever is causing this premature slipping must be material related or mechanical somewhere else. I don't think this mod is the solution but hope it helps in the long run.
None of us are as delusional to think it's the magic fix, but we're certainly hoping for improvement. Was it in the line or the slave cylinder?
Do you know have any idea on if that can be installed onto a 2023 with no issue and if it's possible to get that programming done as well?
Are you referring to putting the 23 parts into an earlier model? If so, that's the million dollar question isn't it? Because even if you did retrofit the 23 components into a previous chassis, without the updated AVS programming, would it even make a big enough difference to be worth it? Or can the BCM/DME even be updated to reflect the changes? The 2023 Electronic Power Steering programming is on version 3.0 as well.. can that be updated too??

Things that make you go, "hmmmm"
 

Traxion

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Oops terrible wording by me, yeah that's exactly what I meant. Was hoping there'd be a way to install it in my 22 and get those benefits.
 

FLtrackdays

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Two kinds of track people. Some take the stock car and replace parts as they wear down. And others like me that get caught up and replace some things preventively. I will say I love the SPL parts. The feel on track and quality. But they’re not cheap either.

That being said. A buddy drives his 2020 Supra on track with only upgraded tires and sway bars. I’ll be damned, he still the fastest Supra at all of our local tracks, Sebring and Homestead.

Unless you’re adding a power or dragging this car, all the upgrades $$$ are not needed for that awesome free track day Toyota gave us ? Get out there people and enjoy this car, so I can see more of you going faster than me bone stock ? ?. I bet this wonderful 2023 manual can handle it. If not, Toyota should be delighted y’all have been the guinea pigs for the R&D and will start fixing the issue.
 

mdpalmer

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If not, Toyota should be delighted y’all have been the guinea pigs for the R&D and will start fixing the issue.
I was just thinking about this, track use really exposes weak links in the hardware (car) and software (driver). Toyota must have been "pretty confident" the MT's can take some abuse if they're encouraging us to run at least one track day.

And right, if the cars do have issues there should be a trend and hopefully Toyota will take note. Otherwise I suppose we're stuck with aftermarket solutions... Let's hope they're listening (esp. manufacturers familiar with the B58 engine), this is a potential opportunity for them to cash in if the OE clutch ends up being an issue.

I just got my info packet in the mail yesterday from NASA, I plan to run the car later this year and see how it goes. I'm really excited to melt my clutch ???
 

AJRMKV

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I was just thinking about this, track use really exposes weak links in the hardware (car) and software (driver). Toyota must have been "pretty confident" the MT's can take some abuse if they're encouraging us to run at least one track day.

And right, if the cars do have issues there should be a trend and hopefully Toyota will take note. Otherwise I suppose we're stuck with aftermarket solutions... Let's hope they're listening (esp. manufacturers familiar with the B58 engine), this is a potential opportunity for them to cash in if the OE clutch ends up being an issue.

I just got my info packet in the mail yesterday from NASA, I plan to run the car later this year and see how it goes. I'm really excited to melt my clutch ???
I'm wondering if the Supras given to journalist had their clutch broken in by Toyota in advance. Not a single one of them had an issue and their primary objective is typically abuse.
 

Speed Logic

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Just had my Clutch Delay Valve removed by @Speed Logic

Immediate thoughts, things felt a lot smoother, especially between 1-2. I didn't get to really get on it but I'll be doing some driving this weekend.

Currently at 770ish miles. Whatever is causing this premature slipping must be material related or mechanical somewhere else. I don't think this mod is the solution but hope it helps in the long run.
Thanks for the shoutout @Eastwood ! We have been removing these CDV from BMW vehicles for well over 10+ years now with good results. They don't usually affect clutch wear/tear but usually allows you to do a much harder (read regular MT) 1-2 shift if doing a power shift or hard shift without much trouble. Without the CDV removed it will cause issues on a hard 1-2 shift - a delay and sometimes difficult to slam it into the 2nd gear. There is plenty of info on this issues with regard to BMWs. If you anybody wants to do reading from a good source without conjecture:

https://www.zeckhausen.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=6562

I definitely want to hear more about this and what the process was of removing it!
There are threads on this forum if you want to reference it. But the below attached picture someone posted is where its located - and it has to be removed from inside the Slave Cylinder. After removal you will need to properly bleed the Clutch Slave cylinder so there is no air in the line.

Not condoning TJ Hunt videos or his advice, but i just watched his video, and he replaced the slave cylinder. The valve looked like it was in here
1682038583115.png
 

UYCR

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Thanks for the shoutout @Eastwood ! We have been removing these CDV from BMW vehicles for well over 10+ years now with good results. They don't usually affect clutch wear/tear but usually allows you to do a much harder (read regular MT) 1-2 shift if doing a power shift or hard shift without much trouble. Without the CDV removed it will cause issues on a hard 1-2 shift - a delay and sometimes difficult to slam it into the 2nd gear. There is plenty of info on this issues with regard to BMWs. If you anybody wants to do reading from a good source without conjecture:

https://www.zeckhausen.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=6562



There are threads on this forum if you want to reference it. But the below attached picture someone posted is where its located - and it has to be removed from inside the Slave Cylinder. After removal you will need to properly bleed the Clutch Slave cylinder so there is no air in the line.
For those who like to DIY things, is doing the wood screw method still an option for the supra's slave cylinder or are there any more appropriate tools needed?
 

Speed Logic

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For those who like to DIY things, is doing the wood screw method still an option for the supra's slave cylinder or are there any more appropriate tools needed?
Wood screw works perfectly fine if correct size/width. There was no special tools used for that portion on my end to be clear. Hope all goes smoothly!
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