Where do you think the BMW/Toyota car will be built at?

  • Japan

    Votes: 1 16.7%
  • Europe

    Votes: 1 16.7%
  • US

    Votes: 4 66.7%
  • Other

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    6
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FRS-Man

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They didn't cite a source but I hope they're right and not just making stuff up to sell magazines. Doesn't sound like it's like the BMW i8 or i3 full carbon tub though? Sounds like a mix of CF + metals?
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Craigy

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They didn't cite a source but I hope they're right and not just making stuff up to sell magazines. Doesn't sound like it's like the BMW i8 or i3 full carbon tub though? Sounds like a mix of CF + metals?
I don't think Car would make this up and I have pretty good confidence in it.

Yeah you're right, it is some blend: "CLAR also stands for a more advanced material mix which introduces some carbon fibre elements, additional high-strength steel sections, selected magnesium and titanium accents, and a broader variety of aluminium alloys."

If you pay attention to the descriptive modifiers you get:
Some carbon fiber elements
Selected magnesium and titanium accents
A broader variety
of aluminum alloys
Additional high-strength steel sections

So at the end of the day it sounds like they're replacing likely an all-steel 6 series chassis with a steel/aluminum chassis with bits of carbon, titanium and magnesium here and there.
Not exactly a carbon tub, but really could we expect every future 3 series to get a carbon tub?

If we got the full-blown real-deal carbon tub in the FT1, it would have potential to be even lighter, but more costly.

I know the i3 technically offers a carbon tub and starts at $40k, but (pardon my ignorance) for that $40k (realistically $50k+) you're getting a baby tiny carbon tub with some ugly, ill-fitting body panels attached to it, some golf cart motors to move it here and there, and not much else. Can Supra really offer a real-size carbon tub + all the trimmings of a purebred sportscar for $60k, $70k?
 

FRS-Man

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I know the i3 technically offers a carbon tub and starts at $40k, but (pardon my ignorance) for that $40k (realistically $50k+) you're getting a baby tiny carbon tub with some ugly, ill-fitting body panels attached to it, some golf cart motors to move it here and there, and not much else. Can Supra really offer a real-size carbon tub + all the trimmings of a purebred sportscar for $60k, $70k?
Good point. But by the time the Supra begins production it may have been 3-4 years since i3 production started, during which time carbon fiber production costs may have dropped. Or at least I hope :)
 

Loyo911

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If we got the full-blown real-deal carbon tub in the FT1, it would have potential to be even lighter, but more costly.
Like everyone else I get excited about the idea of a full carbon tub for the Supra but I have my doubts. I can see it for the Supra but I can't see BMW giving a Z4 a full carbon tub, and these two cars are supposed to use the same chassis. The Z4 is already priced $50-60k after options. With a carbon fiber body it'd have to be priced $70-80k?? Awfully high asking price for a mid sized 2 seat roadster.
 

Hank Lee

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At some point down the line I think most cars could end up with some kind of carbon fiber construction. I remember reading recently that Audi and BMW and others formed some kind of group that's targeting a 90% drop in carbon fiber production costs within 6 years. At that point, carbon fiber will be like any other common construction material we see used today. Can't wait!

Article: http://blog.caranddriver.com/weave-...loping-carbon-fiber-thats-90-percent-cheaper/
 

Boomshakalaka

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I hope this isn't the FT1 supra platform. Definitely doesnt sound full CF like we were all hoping for.

@Craigy your point about the 6 series being priced higher than Z4 wouldnt that mean the 6 series should get the most advanced and expensive architecture (i.e. a full CF body) instead of a lower priced model like the Z.
 

From a Dig

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Crazy that the 6 series weighs over 4000 pounds! What is the chassis made out of led?

Imagine if it weighed in mid 3000 pounds and then got the 500 pound reduction. All this carbon fiber talk is exciting and all but what does that mean for repairs if there's ever an accident? Is my car goiing to be 'totaled' much easier or can the carbon material they use be repaired as much as other materials like aluminum and steel?
 

Wally World

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At some point down the line I think most cars could end up with some kind of carbon fiber construction. I remember reading recently that Audi and BMW and others formed some kind of group that's targeting a 90% drop in carbon fiber production costs within 6 years. At that point, carbon fiber will be like any other common construction material we see used today. Can't wait!

Article: http://blog.caranddriver.com/weave-...loping-carbon-fiber-thats-90-percent-cheaper/
6 years is nothing. That means the next generation of cars might have tons of CF for today's prices. :headbang:
 

Hank Lee

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Crazy that the 6 series weighs over 4000 pounds! What is the chassis made out of led?

Imagine if it weighed in mid 3000 pounds and then got the 500 pound reduction. All this carbon fiber talk is exciting and all but what does that mean for repairs if there's ever an accident? Is my car goiing to be 'totaled' much easier or can the carbon material they use be repaired as much as other materials like aluminum and steel?
If it weighed mid 3000 pounds it wouldn't be able to get a 500 pound reduction probably. It's only because it's so big and heavy a car to begin with that reducing its size and changing its architecture construction can shave off so much weigh.
 

sunFire

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I hope this isn't the FT1 supra platform. Definitely doesnt sound full CF like we were all hoping for.
Me 2. Feels like it would be a step backwards after they were able to produce a full carbon body for the i3 and i8. This is beauty!


342014bmwi8pfd-1.jpg
 

Tunnel_D

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I hope this isn't the FT1 supra platform. Definitely doesnt sound full CF like we were all hoping for.

@Craigy your point about the 6 series being priced higher than Z4 wouldnt that mean the 6 series should get the most advanced and expensive architecture (i.e. a full CF body) instead of a lower priced model like the Z.
It's not the same platform that Toyota and BMW are developing. This CLAR platform is BMW's modular platform they'll use for everything from the 3 series up.

We should see something more exotic for the FT1 Supra.
 

kamran

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Crazy that the 6 series weighs over 4000 pounds! What is the chassis made out of led?

Imagine if it weighed in mid 3000 pounds and then got the 500 pound reduction. All this carbon fiber talk is exciting and all but what does that mean for repairs if there's ever an accident? Is my car goiing to be 'totaled' much easier or can the carbon material they use be repaired as much as other materials like aluminum and steel?
Not sure if you have had the pleasure of visiting a body shop in the recent ten or twenty years, but even with metal panels, they no longer repair/Bondo anything. It's a lot cheaper to replace panels. It's the same thing with cars with plastic panels.

For now, as long as all new cars are insured, insurance will be burdening the higher replacement costs. And at the rate folks are mentioning here, carbon fiber panels will soon cost almost the same as metal panels.

If the suspension members are carbon, again just like metal ones, no one will re-straighten or repair, they simply replace.

Most likely, under body parts may have aluminum shields or something to protect them from rocks.

Not sure though how road salt/chemicals react with the carbon fiber protective coats...for the folks in the NE...
 

910ps

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Not sure if you have had the pleasure of visiting a body shop in the recent ten or twenty years, but even with metal panels, they no longer repair/Bondo anything. It's a lot cheaper to replace panels. It's the same thing with cars with plastic panels.

For now, as long as all new cars are insured, insurance will be burdening the higher replacement costs. And at the rate folks are mentioning here, carbon fiber panels will soon cost almost the same as metal panels.
Never thought about that point. Just did some digging around for what BMW i3 owners pay for example and one guy is paying just about $250 more a year for insurance compared to a 2004 Mazda 3, so it's probably not a huge premium increase just because of the carbon construction.
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