Race Tracking Your Supra - Information exchange

[Rocksandblues]

my .02 :

Stock calipers and rotors with csg or mu pads and a 600+ fluid will out brake or equal brake almost anything out there on a track day except the really serious track builds (lighter) or twice as expensive like GT3s

Custom brake set ups cost a ton and will really only gain you fractions on the track.

everyone likes to compare braking markers, how deep you can go. That is cool but really like 10-20feet. I have learned it is exponentially better for lap times on how fast you can get back on the gas.

again my .02

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[razorlab]

Thanks - see I new someone smarter than me would jump in! So this makes sense. If you put a stronger pad on the front then with the way it brakes the rears are not working as hard. So basically putting a stronger pad rear, and lighter front balances it a bit, even with those same pressures?

All the weight moves to the front when braking so you want most of your braking power on the front, which has the most traction at that moment. You can put a higher friction pad on the rear vs the front if you like having to put opposite steering lock in to not loop the car under braking.

All I have been looking at is how hot the rotor/ calipers are running front an rear and trying not to over heat them. I have not been boiling fluid, so no brake fade, but is close if you run a full 20 min session. Hence why I am still trying to figure out brakes. I actually have a Brake guy locally designing/ building a custom Wilwood big brake kit - 15" front and 14" rears ( 6 piston/ 4 piston) so will share once this eventually gets done. It will be all track level stuff and then replacement rotors and parts should be more easily available and better on the wallet.... All the ones you find out their today are big bucks and then replacement rotors are crazy priced as well.

Historically, I haven't had good experiences with Wilwood. They have been pretty junky. Maybe the newer stuff is better.

my .02 :

Stock calipers and rotors with csg or mu pads and a 600+ fluid will out brake or equal brake almost anything out there on a track day except the really serious track builds (lighter) or twice as expensive like GT3s

100% agree here. Unless you are making a TON of power, the OEM system is very capable.

everyone likes to compare braking markers, how deep you can go. =

You mean like this? hahahah

 

[adawine]

@razorlab are you staying on stock rotors and PMu pads for this season after going bigger turbo? I’m interested to hear your experience as I’ll be going bigger turbo and pure transmission after this season.

 

[razorlab]

@razorlab are you staying on stock rotors and PMu pads for this season after going bigger turbo? I’m interested to hear your experience as I’ll be going bigger turbo and pure transmission after this season.

Yea, we'll see how it goes. I have some CSG pads ready to go on if I need more pad. I'll share as much info as I can as we go.

 

[AHP]

my .02 :

Stock calipers and rotors with csg or mu pads and a 600+ fluid will out brake or equal brake almost anything out there on a track day except the really serious track builds (lighter) or twice as expensive like GT3s

It would be really interesting to get some empirical data on that. After I ran my first few sessions in my C7Z -- all stock except SRF -- my first thought after getting back in the Supra for a session was "wow... these brakes are effin terrible!". Maybe the CSG are just that much better.

 

[nibble]

Thanks - see I new someone smarter than me would jump in! So this makes sense. If you put a stronger pad on the front then with the way it brakes the rears are not working as hard. So basically putting a stronger pad rear, and lighter front balances it a bit, even with those same pressures? All I have been looking at is how hot the rotor/ calipers are running front an rear and trying not to over heat them. I have not been boiling fluid, so no brake fade, but is close if you run a full 20 min session. Hence why I am still trying to figure out brakes. I actually have a Brake guy locally designing/ building a custom Wilwood big brake kit - 15" front and 14" rears ( 6 piston/ 4 piston) so will share once this eventually gets done. It will be all track level stuff and then replacement rotors and parts should be more easily available and better on the wallet.... All the ones you find out their today are big bucks and then replacement rotors are crazy priced as well.

though there are many ways to control brake bias, I only know 2 ways.

1. install brake bias controller. As I understand, this controls pressure between front & rear brake circuit to to control which set of brake will apply more pressure than the other and how much.
2. use different compound of brake between front and rear to adjust. on this setup, unlike the other, you cannot control as you need unless you had different compound already for swap.

i guess you could install different brake system as well which is quite similar to #2. you can combine both method as well for more precise control. Also, not much has to do with ABS. will leave topic of ABS for another time.

my experience with DTC-60 in front / Stock rear, DTC-60 is such a stronger compound that it was way too strong in front then rear. great compound and I was able to brake later than stock, but set up was less than what I would've preferred. - I like either neutral or slight rear bias. as you already know from factory, most passenger cars are front bias for safety reason. so adding stronger compound in front only made it even stronger front bias. and then got lazy and decided not to swap between track and street. that's why opted to hawk HP+ front and rear at the moment. this setup probably is not for hard core track junkies but it gives me good balance of slightly better performance on track and convenience of not changing pad for street, not to mention not getting comments about squeaking brake from other guys that I have bad brake.. :

one thing for sure, DO NOT EVER, EVER use R1 concept product. I always ask my student if they switched brake pad and what brand/compound. if they mention R1 Concept, I ask them to brake miles before normal braking point. there are so many people /w supra switched to this "wonderful" compound that does not dust their car with brake dust which doesn't stop the car. - I could not engage ABS even I was standing on it...

 

[Rocksandblues]

All the weight moves to the front when braking so you want most of your braking power on the front, which has the most traction at that moment. You can put a higher friction pad on the rear vs the front if you like having to put opposite steering lock in to not loop the car under braking.



Historically, I haven't had good experiences with Wilwood. They have been pretty junky. Maybe the newer stuff is better.




100% agree here. Unless you are making a TON of power, the OEM system is very capable.



You mean like this? hahahah

REALLY SMART knowing you were too deep and not trying to force it. In that case bailing out STRAIGHT into the run off is 100 out of 100 times the right thing to do

 

[Rocksandblues]

It would be really interesting to get some empirical data on that. After I ran my first few sessions in my C7Z -- all stock except SRF -- my first thought after getting back in the Supra for a session was "wow... these brakes are effin terrible!". Maybe the CSG are just that much better.

i wish i had the numbers too.
Just my experience with the supra for 2.5 full track seasons at about 30 days per season compared to what and who i am running against. have tried lots of diff pads, went to Mu and now back to CSG. on third set of rotors and i dont know how many pad sets.

CSG are not magic, but they are really really really good. When i used to take fellow Supra owners still on stock and show them what serious pads can do they all say i thought you were going to put me through the windshield.

There are better and faster drivers. Just my .02 and experience- what is good about this thread everyone comparing notes.

 

[razorlab]

REALLY SMART knowing you were too deep and not trying to force it. In that case bailing out STRAIGHT into the run off is 100 out of 100 times the right thing to do

Yea, you can see me almost tuck it in but I made the decision to go off straight since I saw how much paved run off there was. I've seen a couple guys try and make that turn too fast and go into the grass, then into the armco.

 

[Todday1]

I figured getting into Brakes discussion would be lively as there is no perfect answer. The car stops fine with stock or big brakes. In my case was not trying to use the Brakes for faster times but just wanted to be able to run my pace for the whole session, without smoking them , and hopefully get some decent rotor and pad life. Faster tires are also harder on Brakes. These cars are heavy 3600/3700 pounds so a lot to stop as you start getting faster times. So I basically go through a set of pads about the same as tires - 6-7 track days, so for me I am balancing the cost of all these consumable items. I agree if you can figure out how to use less Brake and get on the gas before Apex you are going faster. More gas less Brake! Easier said than done, but is why we are all out there learning and practicing and having fun. Just think there are very few people who actually get to do this. So glad it is helping for everyone and we can keep up topics as I am sure there are plenty more.

 

[razorlab]

These cars are heavy 3600/3700 pounds so a lot to stop as you start getting faster times.

Damn, how much do you weigh? lol

 

[RWhiz]

I did 36 track days my first year. Took NASA comp school in Oct 21. And started instructing in Dec 21. Feb 22 took the PCA instructing school and also am a national instructor for them. I used to race motocross, and off-road but had not raced cars. Total track days since starting in Jan 22 is now at 64. With over 80 hours of on track seat time.

We have a similar background, I started riding MX in 1979, I raced MX and some desert competitively for about 25 years. Got into cars, SCCA time trials for a couple years then had my son so I stopped for about 10 years or so, just getting back into cars now. I’ve tracked my Supra a few times now in preparation for next year possibly competing in SCCA TT’s so I’ll be looking at this thread a lot, hopefully contributing some where I feel I can.

 

[Todday1]

Yeah that is best way to take weight out get a skinny driver. I gave not take anything out if car plus added Roll Bar. Min weight for TT is 3640 and that just gets me in tt3. Dyno is at 420 average to rear wheels. I have scales and with full tank and me/178 pounds. It about 3700. So have to watch his full it is.

 

[razorlab]

Yeah that is best way to take weight out get a skinny driver. I gave not take anything out if car plus added Roll Bar. Min weight for TT is 3640 and that just gets me in tt3. Dyno is at 420 average to rear wheels. I have scales and with full tank and me/178 pounds. It about 3700. So have to watch his full it is.

Oh, you don't weigh much!

So you are saying your supra with a full tank of gas is 3520lbs? That seems high. What roll bar do you have? Something that is 70+ lbs?

 

[Rocksandblues]

We have a similar background, I started riding MX in 1979, I raced MX and some desert competitively for about 25 years. Got into cars, SCCA time trials for a couple years then had my son so I stopped for about 10 years or so, just getting back into cars now. I’ve tracked my Supra a few times now in preparation for next year possibly competing in SCCA TT’s so I’ll be looking at this thread a lot, hopefully contributing some where I feel I can.

Finished second in SCCA TT Max2 this past season (behind another Supra) PM me if I can help w anything

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