Toyota "Preparing" Hotter Supra GRMN, Says Chief Engineer

[KahnBB6]

This is my take. The transition to the hybrid electric performance will start with the GT sedans. Look at the Audi RS e-tron GT. I was at Porsche for the Taycan unveiling and as much as a petrol head that I am, I'm actually pretty impressed by the Audi RS e-tron GT. More so that I'd be interested to drive and possibly own one.

This technology won't spill over to a sports car until majority of the major manufactures have their own version of the GER variants. When that happens, there won't be any Supra badge. It'll have it's own name, design and identity. With the current administration making an even stronger push for green energy, rising gas prices, electric technology constantly evolving at a rapid pace, this decade will be the transition period. RIP to the ICE...

That transition to EV and hybrid-EV is already starting with the expensive luxury GT sedans. I do like the E-Tron GT as well but I want to see it directly compared to the Porsche Taycan it is based on.

What is "GER" in this context?

As far as the Supra badge going away... you may be right that it's what Toyota will do but it will not be acceptable if they do. Letting the nameplate die because they don't want to try hard to keep the car as much a pure Supra as possible into an electrified era would just be an act of giving up... again. It happened in 2002 when, finally, the manual 2JZ-GTE would no longer pass Japanese emissions regulation but it shouldn't be their decision again.

At minimum there can be a gap of just a *few* short years before an A100 Supra model with new technology... but to abandon the entire sportscar altogether...? You may end up being correct about this but it will not be the right decision from Toyota if that's what comes to pass.

The Supra should remain the unapologetically driver-centric sportscar that it is but no matter what it's driveline will have to change with the times. It's just that the EV and battery technology is currently too bulky and heavy to do it justice in 2021. In a few years though...?

You're spot on with this decade being the beginning of the transition period away from internal combustion engines. Most immediately away from purely gas or purely diesel and into hybrids and some EVs alongside them. For many years there will be both (and whatever existing and older models are around) and eventually it'll be all EV sales. By that time the pure EV tech and battery tech will have improved a lot. Maybe hydrogen infrastructure will have as well, mostly led by the semi truck industry.

E-Fuel was first investigated by Audi and now Porsche as a suitable synthetic CO2 neutral combustible fuel for existing ICE vehicles... but who knows how the volume and cost will work out in the future. Maybe it will only be attainable by the super rich? Whatever comes of that it's not going to be conventional to drive a pure ICE vehicle indefinitely as a regular use vehicle. Certainly the fuel will not be cheap to try to do so. As a special use vehicle only a little of the time? Probably but we'll see.

Just this week Audi announced that they would stop developing new ICE drivetrains and just keep the current combustion powertrains in service until their full EV transition is complete at the end of the decade. They'll do tweaks and costly upgrades to meet new emissions standards but the engine architectures themselves will not change from this point forward however they use them for the next few years.

Most of the industry has been doing much the same.

It won't be all EV's overnight but within a couple of model years there will be many more hybrids of all kinds as EV offerings and tech slowly grow in number.

Now I think we're really off topic so I'll stop my thoughts on that where they are but in so far as getting out for sale a limited final gas-turbo-only ultimate Supra before this rather large transition perhaps it's all relevant.

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[KahnBB6]

so pretty much all those people waiting for a 2022 or 2023 to get a manual... they are not getting it so might as well buy now....

I would say to that the same thing I felt from the beginning: if no factory manual Supra is offered then the only acceptable alternative is any other suitably fun and acceptable manual equipped model. There will be plenty of time to enjoy a slew of automatic-only or transmission-less performance vehicles in coming years but there is a finite window of opportunity right now and for the next handful of years within which to get a special and fun performance manual model vehicle.

Let’s wait and see.

^^ I hope there will be a manual Supra surprise yet. The model run is not yet finished.

 

[Suggs.OR]

Aside from the good news about the Supra GRMN what bothers me about this article is the continued suggestion that Toyota will just kill off the Supra altogether after the A90.... after they *just* brought it back. That would be pretty shortsighted if true.

There should be an A100 successor after we’ve celebrated the final model year of this generation.

Toyota in their defense can't say "hey. So uh, we are going to develop but it's going to be 2030 for the new version".

I feel this is exactly what Acura/Honda did with the NSX (but I could be remembering wrong). Pumped up the replacement by talking about it for a long time and then it wasn't the original so people were mad. Thst did kind of happen with the supra too but could you imagine the rumors over the next several years that would outweigh any reasonable expectations.

 

[KahnBB6]

Toyota in their defense can't say "hey. So uh, we are going to develop but it's going to be 2030 for the new version".

I feel this is exactly what Acura/Honda did with the NSX (but I could be remembering wrong). Pumped up the replacement by talking about it for a long time and then it wasn't the original so people were mad. Thst did kind of happen with the supra too but could you imagine the rumors over the next several years that would outweigh any reasonable expectations.

Good point and I do agree with you. My guess is that there actually is early work on an A100 or at least some part of it. Maybe this involves Mazda’s I6 turbo hybrid engine and a co-developed RWD chassis or maybe it doesn’t at all. Maybe there is little more than general powertrain R&D work so far. Or maybe no work at all so far.

Whatever the case may be there will likely be a gap between the current Supra and its successor..... assuming Toyota lets it live on in a totally different design.

If they were to talk about it now as you say it would not be a smart move on their part.

BTW, the NSX took a short hiatus before getting hyped as a very impressive near production ready RWD FR V10 model. And.... then it was canned and they went back to a blank canvas which delayed a 2nd generation release several more years.

Technically the Supra had something like this happen between 2005-2007 when there was a 3.5L AWD version planned as the original MKV but that of course never came to be.

 

[BrettS]

Didn’t @A70TTR hint that Toyota was already in the early stages of planning the next gen supra? Albeit pretty sure this was all before covid hit so things could have changed.

 

[KahnBB6]

Didn’t @A70TTR hint that Toyota was already in the early stages of planning the next gen supra? Albeit pretty sure this was all before covid hit so things could have changed.

I’d never be able to find his post with that quote now but yes I recall him mentioning that many months ago. Things could have changed but I hope it’s still true.

 

[CSUfiend]

Sadly, I think the one of the biggest hopes to have a a100 Supra (regardless of power train or even transmission options) lies in the overall sales success of the a90. That will at least show something to the bean counters at the company.

Yes, even if you dislike Social Media attention seekers, fans of certain movie franchises, or anyone else who wouldn’t have considered this car if not for the Supra name, it might actually be good if these people keep buying the car and continue to show interest in it.

Sales seem to be going strong as we are well into year two, at least here is the US. The attention seekers on Social Media still like the car. If these thing continue to happen as we approach the end of the life cycle for the a90, I do think it would mean good things for an a100 Supra and the future development for that vehicle.

 

[Islindur]

Didn’t @A70TTR hint that Toyota was already in the early stages of planning the next gen supra? Albeit pretty sure this was all before covid hit so things could have changed.

He did, was early 2020 I guess? Was something in the lines of being very early stages, throwing ideas on drawing board.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

Good point and I do agree with you. My guess is that there actually is early work on an A100 or at least some part of it. Maybe this involves Mazda’s I6 turbo hybrid engine and a co-developed RWD chassis or maybe it doesn’t at all. Maybe there is little more than general powertrain R&D work so far. Or maybe no work at all so far.

Whatever the case may be there will likely be a gap between the current Supra and its successor..... assuming Toyota lets it live on in a totally different design.

If they were to talk about it now as you say it would not be a smart move on their part.

BTW, the NSX took a short hiatus before getting hyped as a very impressive near production ready RWD FR V10 model. And.... then it was canned and they went back to a blank canvas which delayed a 2nd generation release several more years.

Technically the Supra had something like this happen between 2005-2007 when there was a 3.5L AWD version planned as the original MKV but that of course never came to be.

Mazda's new engine is extremely underwhelming and does not deserve to be in any Supra. Specs were released onto the internet. It's going to be a NA Skyactiv I6, not turbocharged.

 

[supraboi]

 

[2JZ-No-Sh*t]

Didn’t @A70TTR hint that Toyota was already in the early stages of planning the next gen supra? Albeit pretty sure this was all before covid hit so things could have changed.

I’d never be able to find his post with that quote now but yes I recall him mentioning that many months ago. Things could have changed but I hope it’s still true.

I believe it's somewhere in these two threads.

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/news-update-and-discussion-on-next-gen-a100-supra.1840/

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/the-a70ttr-dedication-thread.686/

 

[AHP]

13Million Yen is about $119,295 today but who knows what that would equate to in 2 more years. I'll give Toyota a huge A+ on sending off the final MKV Supra with a bang. However, 200 units at 120K will spend majority of their car lives being tucked away or flipped from owner to owner.

Curious to see what this thing will do with that much power and a short wheelbase. Cayman 718 GT4 can take advantage because of it's MR setup but this car as a FR should be interesting.

Exactly.. 200 units might as well be 2 because none of us mere mortals will ever have the opportunity to own one anyway. Regardless of "MSRP" It will be a who's-who bidding war for a small handful of dealers and they'll be relegated to elite collector circles from here to eternity. Pointless.... Toyota once again proving they don't have a clue and/or a single solitary F to give.

 

[Dannyvandelft]

Exactly.. 200 units might as well be 2 because none of us mere mortals will ever have the opportunity to own one anyway. Regardless of "MSRP" It will be a who's-who bidding war for a small handful of dealers and they'll be relegated to elite collector circles from here to eternity. Pointless.... Toyota once again proving they don't have a clue and/or a single solitary F to give.

200 units.... FOR JAPAN. We don't even know if it'll come to the U.S. at all.

 

[Mimosa]

If this does come to fruition I just hope that they up that 200 number just a bit. With a number that low I wouldn't be surprised if it's only released in Japan. Seems like 1000 would be good as that would at least keep the car from going into a major bidding war and would hopefully give it a spread across the globe.

A more reasonable number would be 2000. That way the people who want to buy the car to actually drive it will stand a chance.

I have been calling my dealership every month trying to at least let them know that I want this car. They are stating 2023 for Japan so that would make it a 2024 model year for North America. Hopefully they'll do some contracts to deter people from trying to flip it.

 

[AHP]

200 units.... FOR JAPAN. We don't even know if it'll come to the U.S. at all.

That's a distinction without a difference... Still unobtanium either way.

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