Toyota Teases GR Line Up: Supra MK6, Celica MK8, MR2 MK4, 86 MK3 and GR GT

[KahnBB6]

So... I'm confused. That's definitely not the production car that was being shown off at Goodwood...

I'm guessing this is an update to their electric sport concept from a few years ago. I highly doubt that V8 they are showing off will be branded a new Toyota halo car.

^^ This. The body lines on this car look much too different to be the same near-production supercar in camo that we saw at Goodwood.

Seems like this is a different model.

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[KahnBB6]

I get what you’re saying about Akio Toyoda’s driving impressions possibly influencing the LC’s final direction, but I think the timing and circumstances point to more than just a “hard reset” from the top.

Yes, the LC in production form ended up as a heavy GT, but Toyota’s history with the SC300/400 into the MKIV Supra proves they know how to strip weight and sharpen dynamics from a luxury platform. The FT-1’s proportions lined up far more with the LC than the Z4, which makes me think the design was originally aimed at a Toyota-developed chassis.

Where it gets interesting is the Nobuo Nakamura piece. Him working on a completely different Toyota/BMW project before getting pulled into FT-1 design revisions is a pretty big tell. If BMW needed a partner to justify the Z4’s manufacturing costs, and Toyota needed to revive the Supra name without footing the entire R&D bill, a deal like that makes perfect sense…but it also explains the abrupt platform swap. That was the “financial politics” im referring to…it was a deal breaker.

To me, the LC still looks like the spiritual blueprint for what Toyota internally imagined a MKV could be before that BMW deal reshaped the whole thing. I still believe there is hope for repurposing the LC platform into a really nice new gen Supra.

I keep recalling what A70TTR said a long while back about Toyota Motor developing and deciding on a joint platform that both the Toyota division could use for their next Supra and that the Lexus division could use for their next generation RWD coupe.

At the time (and still) I assumed this was a totally newly developed platform. Maybe it is...?

In the 1990's the Z30 SC/Soarer was designed first and then the Supra MKIV was designed from that starting point. With a totally new platform for both that could suit both cars, share enough costs and keep prices somewhat acceptable this would no longer be the case.

Instead, if that new shared platform were to be a scaled down derivative of the LC500 heavily reworked and modified to suit both a new Supra and a next-gen Lexus coupe that replaces the RC but which goes upmarket a bit (to around what the 90's SC300/400 used to MSRP at if you adjust for today's inflation)... then the same old formula would continue.

The questions I still have in my mind are:

1) CAN the bare LC500 chassis architecture actually be dramatically made less expensive AND smaller AND lighter WHILE dramatically upping overall rigidity?

2) If everything in #1 is actually possible and within production cost and end consumer price targets... it still wouldn't have been possible to go in this direction back in 2011-2012+ when both the MKV and LC500 were being independently developed in the same timeframe. Also the currently available in-house and Mazda I-6 engine options were not yet ready in that starting development timeframe.

It would be very interesting if this were the actual "new shared platform" for the next Supra and next Lexus coupe but if so it would have to be changed a LOT from what it currently is to be suitable. And again... is that achievable with that chassis as a starting point.

The chief designer of the Supra MKIV appealed to the early 90s Toyota management of the day to ask them to approve a totally bespoke new platform for the Supra. Management denied him that request but the Z30 SC/Soarer was already a very good starting point chassis-wise.

 

[gor134]

It would be very interesting if this were the actual "new shared platform" for the next Supra and next Lexus coupe but if so it would have to be changed a LOT from what it currently is to be suitable. And again... is that achievable with that chassis as a starting point.

That's what I believe this is, completely unrelated to the production GR GT but something upcoming as a sports car.

 

[KahnBB6]

That's what I believe this is, completely unrelated to the production GR GT but something upcoming as a sports car.

That's what I think regarding the new concept car pictures.

Question is... for what exactly?

The previous 100% EV LFA-II concepts all were based on the premise of having production solid state battery cells available at high introductory cost. That's still being developed right now and isn't close to ready yet.

This concept looks nothing like the GR GT3/LFR seen at Goodwood.

 

[swrdply400mrelay]

Motortrend also notes it’s not the same as the one from Goodwood, they guess a new LC, and less likely a new LFA.

“We expected it would be the production version of the camouflaged car we’ve seen recently running around on California roads and flying up the hill of the Goodwood Festival of Speed. But it’s not. This is something different. Which leads us to the following conclusion: Toyota is going to build three new high-performance coupes, not two. One is an endurance race car that will compete in the GT3 class; the second is a sports car/supercar that will compete with vehicles like the AMG GT and Porsche 911 GT3; and the third is what Lexus revealed today. The latter looks to be a high-design, luxury coupe, most likely a replacement for the much loved but slow-selling LC coupe. “


https://www.motortrend.com/news/lexus-sport-concept-first-look-review

 

[PerformanceSound]

2) If everything in #1 is actually possible and within production cost and end consumer price targets... it still wouldn't have been possible to go in this direction back in 2011-2012+ when both the MKV and LC500 were being independently developed in the same timeframe. Also the currently available in-house and Mazda I-6 engine options were not yet ready in that starting development timeframe.

I’m convinced a new engine platform was already in the works long before BMW entered the picture. When the economic and logistical mess of “COVID” hit, that plan went into limbo. The fastest, most cost-effective way to keep the project alive? A joint venture.

And let’s be real….these multi-billion-dollar corporations aren’t flying blind. They have the resources and insider intel to forecast the economic climate nearly a decade out. You can call it a conspiracy theory if you want, but looking at the political chaos we’re watching unfold today, it’s not just believable….it’s almost obvious.

The “LFR” & “GT3” are probably twins with hybrid being the difference. However, I am curious why the LC is being kept alive longer, for a vehicle that doesn’t have high sales numbers???

 

[gor134]

I’m convinced a new engine platform was already in the works long before BMW entered the picture. When the economic and logistical mess of “COVID” hit, that plan went into limbo. The fastest, most cost-effective way to keep the project alive? A joint venture.

Are you suggesting that Toyota had an i6 in development *before* they partnered with BMW in 2012..... And it was abandoned 8-9 years later during Covid?

That doesn't make sense to me.

 

[PerformanceSound]

Are you suggesting that Toyota had an i6 in development *before* they partnered with BMW in 2012..... And it was abandoned 8-9 years later during Covid?

That doesn't make sense to me.

I never said an inline six….that’s probably why it doesn’t make sense to you.

 

[KahnBB6]

I never said an inline six….that’s probably why it doesn’t make sense to you.

For historical context the 2007 Toyota HT-FS "Supra" concept was at that time to have been a RWD 400hp 3.5L V6 hybrid-electric (no turbos) which would have been automatic only.

I'm glad they didn't go that route by the 2011-2012 starting development timeframe for the co-developed MKV given there was no manual planned and no forced induction regardless of electric assist.

 

[vb22]

For historical context the 2007 Toyota HT-FS "Supra" concept was at that time to have been a RWD 400hp 3.5L V6 hybrid-electric (no turbos) which would have been automatic only.

I'm glad they didn't go that route by the 2011-2012 starting development timeframe for the co-developed MKV given there was no manual planned and no forced induction regardless of electric assist.

Nah, I think A70 said it would have been a V8. The hybrid tech just wasn't up to par back then and it was most likely just for show.

 

[gor134]

I never said an inline six….that’s probably why it doesn’t make sense to you.

The T24a, V35a as well as the ttV8 were new engine platforms in development, latter of which never made it to production but still continued development after LCF cancellation. We will see it in the production Toyota GR GT.

 

[johnny_10196]

 

[trev_rs]

GR RAV4 with fake carbon cosmetics and no actual performance bits.

 

[Supra93]

The Lexus concept appears to be an updated and most likely a more production ready version of the 2021 concept. See main thread below.

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/le...il-a-motorsports-gathering.31927/#post-492047

 

[PerformanceSound]

So... I'm confused. That's definitely not the production car that was being shown off at Goodwood...

I'm guessing this is an update to their electric sport concept from a few years ago. I highly doubt that V8 they are showing off will be branded a new Toyota halo car.

I agree. This doesn’t look like the “LFR” & “GT3”….I mean, it has some similarities because of brand identity, but I feel like this will be the “SC/MKIV” reincarnation. I could be totally wrong on this, but the proportions just don’t match (even with the “GT3’s” camo).

This shot is absolutely stunning! Looks alot like the MKIV, but 30yrs later:

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