2023 MT Supra Clutch Replacement Options

[Hasan]

One more thing that might be relevant: I'm currently using Motul Gear 300 75W-90 in both the manual transmission and differential. Before that, I was using Motul Gear Competition 75W-140 in both. I changed to the 75W-90 non-LSD version thinking it would be less harsh and still offer better protection than the OEM fluid.

I wouldn't use Motul Gear 300 75W-90 in the transmission or the differential.

I am on OEM clutch and fluids and my car also requires extra effort when going from 2nd to 3rd. Always has.

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[BMWAF]

Interestingly, it seems to require more force with auto rev-match ON and less force with rev-match OFF.

I can't contribute much to this as I am on the stock clutch, but I'd bet a not-isignificant amount of money that auto-rev-matching is nerfing our gears in some unusual way. My complaint is with the 1-2 shift and while it's always pretty ordinary, with auto-rev-matching engaged it's absolutely awful.

Also, I should probably add that in my car, the rest of the gear shifts are fine.

 

[spaghettihoes]

My car also has a stock clutch and 3rd to 2nd downshifts have felt a bit harder with rev matching on. Might just be how this car is. I've also rebled the clutch twice and it did help the first time a bit.

 

[tracer bullet]

I'm just saying that bleeding is easy and costs nothing and MAY have an influence in the shift behaviour if it needs doing.

Note that I didn't disagree with you about it being a possible solution.

I've bled a clutch, just twice in my life but have done it. Getting the car up in the air, getting under it, getting to the bleed screw, connecting the pressure bleeder up top, and so on are certainly do-able but not something I'd call easy, at least for some folks. I for one, don't know the person's background asking about it. Might need to buy a pressure bleeder, definitely brake fluid, perhaps a jack and some stands or cribs as well. I think you're slightly overstating how free and easy it is. For some folks at least.

I'm a DIY-er but not a mechanic. Google says there are some synchro tests, double clutching and high RPM / fast shifts. Might be what you'd call free and easy. Arguably more free and more easy. If the symptoms of a worn synchro sound like what this person's experiencing.

(Hint - it does - noisy and / or difficult shifts - and might be worth considering)

 

[spaghettihoes]

Note that I didn't disagree with you about it being a possible solution.

I've bled a clutch, just twice in my life but have done it. Getting the car up in the air, getting under it, getting to the bleed screw, connecting the pressure bleeder up top, and so on are certainly do-able but not something I'd call easy, at least for some folks. I for one, don't know the person's background asking about it. Might need to buy a pressure bleeder, definitely brake fluid, perhaps a jack and some stands or cribs as well. I think you're slightly overstating how free and easy it is. For some folks at least.

I'm a DIY-er but not a mechanic. Google says there are some synchro tests, double clutching and high RPM / fast shifts. Might be what you'd call free and easy. Arguably more free and more easy. If the symptoms of a worn synchro sound like what this person's experiencing.

(Hint - it does - noisy and / or difficult shifts - and might be worth considering)

It's a really easy job, if you're considering yourself a DIYer on your car it's about as simple as it gets. A lot of us considering having jacks and stands (also stand adapters for these cars) pretty much a given if someone works on their own car unless they have quickjacks or a lift.

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/diy-clutch-delay-valve-cdv-removal.18268/ covers most of it minus the bleeding part. You might want to consider removing your CDV while you're under there.

It's just getting the car in the air and taking off the under body panel that's most of the work. If you have a 2nd person you don't need a pressure bleeder for the clutch, they just need to pump it a few times and hold it while you use a wrench to crack the bleeder with a tube connected to the nipple going into a container. You can buy a cheap bleeder kit or just pick up a couple feet of clear tubing from a hardware store ( 3/16-inch inner diameter) for a few bucks and use a Gatorade bottle.

You also don't need to let a whole lot out so while you could probably get away without topping off the brake fluid (as the reservoir is shared between the brake and clutch) you can just let a tiny bit with one pump/hold cycle.

But if you're going through the trouble of doing this I would cycle it a number of times and top it off with fresh fluid. It doesn't take a lot to pump out all the fluid between the master cylinder and the slave cylinder for the clutch as it's just one thin line running between them. Probably just 2-3 pump and hold cycles.

That being said if multiple people are having this issue with the PTB clutch the issue might be with the release/throw out bearing or something. But if the issue is due to air in the lines I would suggesting trying this first before doing any high rpm shifting tests to see if it's the syncho as you might end up damaging stuff that could be fixed by doing a bleed first.

 

[tracer bullet]

if

Again, to be clear, I've done it. I just don't make too many assumptions about other people. Easy to some people (perhaps you) is OK and doable but a pain in the ass to others (me) and all but impossible for even others - likely the majority of others, I'd bet.

I think we've gone way off topic.

 

[spaghettihoes]

Again, to be clear, I've done it. I just don't make too many assumptions about other people. Easy to some people (perhaps you) is OK and doable but a pain in the ass to others (me) and all but impossible for even others - likely the majority of others, I'd bet.

I think we've gone way off topic.

I agree we've gone off topic but so I'll drop it after this.

If putting your car on jack stands is too hard for you then take it to a shop.

The problem with your suggestion to check using high rpm/aggressive downshifts is that it won't even prove the issue is with the synchros if the issue is something else. It's definitely better to start with the cheaper/easier fix than assuming something more severe, otherwise your options are to go the expensive route or learn to live with the problem when a simple fix might solve the problem.

To add more context, My car had 3000 miles on it and shifted mostly fine but when tracking the car and doing 3rd to 2nd gear downshifts I had minor grinding on occasion. Every other gear was fine. After re-bleeding the problem went away.

 

[tracer bullet]

If putting your car on jack stands is too hard for you then take it to a shop.

The problem with your suggestion to check using high rpm/aggressive downshifts is that it won't even prove the issue is with the synchros if the issue is something else. It's definitely better to start with the cheaper/easier fix than assuming something more severe, otherwise your options are to go the expensive route or learn to live with the problem when a simple fix might solve the problem.

We're not talking about me. I can do it and have the times I've needed to, it's just a pain in the ass vs say doing brake pads. My point, which seems to have been completely lost, is that calling a clutch bleed "easy" is not representative of how a ton of people see it. They don't own stands, or a jack, or have tools, or park on the street or have an apartment, etc. I have no idea this person's background on car repair abilities, but I can ensure you that far more people cannot bleed their clutch than can.

And the synchro suggestion, it is what was wrong with a car I helped fix. This kind of issue COULD be from that. I suggest to consider it, as something to look into. I did not say - DUDE it's for sure your synchros and can't possibly be anything else so go immediately take it to a shop and spend a couple grand. We agree, definitely take the simpler things first, or at least a balance of cost / simplicity / time / likelihood of a solution.

Maybe we're just reading things into other people's posts that were not there to start with.

 

[spaghettihoes]

We're not talking about me. I can do it and have the times I've needed to, it's just a pain in the ass vs say doing brake pads. My point, which seems to have been completely lost, is that calling a clutch bleed "easy" is not representative of how a ton of people see it. They don't own stands, or a jack, or have tools, or park on the street or have an apartment, etc. I have no idea this person's background on car repair abilities, but I can ensure you that far more people cannot bleed their clutch than can.

And the synchro suggestion, it is what was wrong with a car I helped fix. This kind of issue COULD be from that. I suggest to consider it, as something to look into. I did not say - DUDE it's for sure your synchros and can't possibly be anything else so go immediately take it to a shop and spend a couple grand. We agree, definitely take the simpler things first, or at least a balance of cost / simplicity / time / likelihood of a solution.

Maybe we're just reading things into other people's posts that were not there to start with.

I know you did, I wasn't being very clear but I was generally addressing anyone that can't do the basic task of raising their car (including those whose living situation doesn't allow it) should just take it to a shop. I'm not talking about you specifically.

This forum serves as a knowledge base for people trying to diagnose issues and often fix it themselves. If you don't have the capability to work on your car at all sure, for that population doing any work on your car isn't feasible. I also don't think that's reason enough to have what seems like pretty silly debate on whether or not it's easy because some people can't work on their car at all. You can post on a DIY about rotating your tires about how some people can't jack up their car because they live in a city and it isn't easy for them but it's kind of a silly point.

For anyone with the ability to get their car in the air this is a pretty simple task and I wouldn't want anyone being discouraged from doing it because they're relatively inexperienced or haven't done it before. I feel like telling people it isn't easy is counter productive and they can deduce whether or not they have the means to work on a car but for those with a garage and basic tools, pretty much everyone can do it and it directly addressed the issue I was having.

In the CDV delete thread that both of us posted in almost 2 years ago the general consensus was that it was pretty easy and quick to do despite being an even more involved process than this and usually requiring bleeding after removing it. You mentioned that getting the car in the air and on jack stands isn't easy for some people and I agree with that, especially on this car it can be a pain in the ass but by that logic almost everything on this car is hard including changing your oil.

 

[Yagi]

Quick update with some more details:

I tested the shifter for around 5 minutes with the engine OFF, going through all the gears, and they all feel pretty much the same — just normal notchiness. Nothing about 2nd/3rd really stands out.

With the engine ON and the car not moving, it also feels basically the same.

The difference appears while driving. Shifting 2nd → 3rd and 3rd → 2nd feels like it requires noticeably more force to engage compared to the other gears.

I also tried shifting 2nd → neutral, waiting around 2 seconds, then selecting 3rd. It still requires some force. Interestingly, it seems to require more force with auto rev-match ON and less force with rev-match OFF.

For reference, I'm running the PTB twin-disc organic/organic clutch, single-mass flywheel, standard pressure plate, and PTB release bearing.

One more thing that might be relevant: I'm currently using Motul Gear 300 75W-90 in both the manual transmission and differential. Before that, I was using Motul Gear Competition 75W-140 in both. I changed to the 75W-90 non-LSD version thinking it would be less harsh and still offer better protection than the OEM fluid.

Now I'm wondering if the transmission oil could be contributing to the 2nd/3rd shift feel, especially since the OEM manual transmission fluid is MTF-LT-5.


Anyone with a 6MT Supra, especially with the PTB SMF/twin-disc setup, experienced something similar? I'm trying to figure out whether this is normal, fluid-related, PTB clutch/release-bearing related, or possibly something with the 2nd/3rd synchros.

If you haven’t already tried you can test for clutch drag by pushing the clutch all the way down then revving the car up almost to redline while in 1st gear while stationary on a flat road. If the car moves forward at all you know you have a clutch issue hydraulic or otherwise. I’m leaning toward your choice of MT fluid being the culprit though.

 

[Sinjo]

Quick update with some more details:

I tested the shifter for around 5 minutes with the engine OFF, going through all the gears, and they all feel pretty much the same — just normal notchiness. Nothing about 2nd/3rd really stands out.

With the engine ON and the car not moving, it also feels basically the same.

The difference appears while driving. Shifting 2nd → 3rd and 3rd → 2nd feels like it requires noticeably more force to engage compared to the other gears.

I also tried shifting 2nd → neutral, waiting around 2 seconds, then selecting 3rd. It still requires some force. Interestingly, it seems to require more force with auto rev-match ON and less force with rev-match OFF.

For reference, I'm running the PTB twin-disc organic/organic clutch, single-mass flywheel, standard pressure plate, and PTB release bearing.

One more thing that might be relevant: I'm currently using Motul Gear 300 75W-90 in both the manual transmission and differential. Before that, I was using Motul Gear Competition 75W-140 in both. I changed to the 75W-90 non-LSD version thinking it would be less harsh and still offer better protection than the OEM fluid.

Now I'm wondering if the transmission oil could be contributing to the 2nd/3rd shift feel, especially since the OEM manual transmission fluid is MTF-LT-5.


Anyone with a 6MT Supra, especially with the PTB SMF/twin-disc setup, experienced something similar? I'm trying to figure out whether this is normal, fluid-related, PTB clutch/release-bearing related, or possibly something with the 2nd/3rd synchros.

I have a PTB DMF / Organic / Sintered and in my experience, 2nd > 3rd needs to be muscled in but only during WOT, and i put it down to the fact that it's 900nm+ vs synchros.

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