A91 & Recent 2021 Impossible to Tune / ECU manufactured after 2020/6 is locked? [WARNING: NO POLITICS]

[max]

So, in other words, world has gone crazy with security, so, the vulnerabilities you speak of, may be hard to find and exploit.. and yeah scarcity of people working to exploit them... have better paying things to do

.....and the bad thing is, automotive is using "hackers" (not like the movies..) to lock this stuff down because of the "lawsuits" that could come from someone hacking the vehicle systems.....also, just food for thought......the tuners are looking at these types of situations from a "what makes money sense POV". Let's say there are 100 '21 Supras with locked ecu's and if they spent time/resources to unlock the ecu's for those 100 Supras and could offer a 93 tune for say, $1k (just random #'s here) BUT "their" time and resources to unlock the ECU's cost $200, then they would only make $800 profit on tunes for 100 Supras.

Now, instead, they focus on the 500 vehicles that can be unlocked and offer the same 93 tune for the same $1k price with no additional cost to unlock them, that is $500K profit to them vs. just $80K for the Supra.......just a make believe scenario but the real world implication is the same.....

Hey, my Supra can't be tuned either.....

 

[zrk]

IMO as someone in the field:

For applications of technology like this, it's never about breaking the encryption (which should be mathematically sound as long as standards-based algorithms are used), but rather either someone's implementation of it (library that handles the encryption) or an operations-related issue (weak key), or the boot process of the device itself (usually to point to a different version of the code that runs on it). I wouldn't hold my breath for a leak of the key, class action lawsuits, etc. Best chance is someone finding a vulnerability in the bootstrap and exploiting it to recover the cleartext key or to point it to a different image of the operating system with its own programming. This just takes time - it's a complex process and there likely aren't a lot of people working on it, compared to say "jail breaking" the newest phone from Apple.

Yup - this is good. Thank you for clearing up some of that. And FWIW - it's exactly jailbreaking.

 

[Sigg]

Yeah, good luck with the brute force..........anyway,

Hey, I am a network admin by "trade" so my explanation is nowhere near as "technically proficient" as yours.....My level of encryption knowledge applies to switches and routers on our network so I concede to you as an engineer.

I was just attempting to give a basic idea as to what tuners are up against with regards to trying to unlock these ECU's. As a fellow Supra owner, if getting the ECU unlocked will put smiles on a lot of folk's faces, then I am all for it.....me personally, am leaving mine stock as it is a BAD-ASS vehicle as is......I just wish the D@MN "scatpacks" would stop pulling up on my bumper when trying to enjoy my Supra!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.....it's only got 200 miles on the clock and want it broken in properly....

Thanks fellow techie.....

Freaking Mopars everywhere man I swear ?

 

[DatBassTho]

Freaking Mopars everywhere man I swear ?

Can't hate em for selling a shit ton of units man. They are an attractive package. You can hate them for how they act though haha Guaranteed if the supra saw even 25% of the same sales numbers the ECU would've been unlocked already and there would be more than a CF edition for 2022

 

[VA90]

Freaking Mopars everywhere man I swear ?

I got buzzed by a Hellcat literally on the way home from the dealership. I had all of 20 miles on the car, minding my own business in the right lane, when this guy comes by doing 120 on a crowded 95 south. I like the Hellcat a lot and glad that Dodge is much more mod friendly than Toyota, but not sure what these guys are trying to prove

 

[Sigg]

I got buzzed by a Hellcat literally on the way home from the dealership. I had all of 20 miles on the car, minding my own business in the right lane, when this guy comes by doing 120 on a crowded 95 south. I like the Hellcat a lot and glad that Dodge is much more mod friendly than Toyota, but not sure what these guys are trying to prove

MOP0WA BahYBeh! That's what I think

 

[Camus]

Honestly I don't see the point of those cars (Mopars). They are big, heavy and useless, yeah sure, 800 whp, but what is purpose if they just burn tire the entire way. To me they look like 70s cars tech with fancy plastic on top of them. The interiors are awful, I don't know.

I see the appeal of a Mustang or even a Camaro, both are in the 3700-3800 lb range. But 4600 lbs is plain mediocre, also their engines are still V8 with pushrods.

I know why there are so many, they are cheap, they are cheap used too. Nothing against the owners though, but the cars are stupid. However, I can see why the hellcat is fun although useless.

 

[XtremeMaC]

Everyone's taste/opinions/affordability/etc..
I personally love the sound of the V8 even if it's unable to go anywhere
Add a supercharger whine to it and it's exquisite. Heck the trucks have V8 that I'm sometimes jealous of
But at the end of the day, I like precision and sexy styling more.
Surely, no amount of exhaust or intake will make the TC'ed I6 sound like a V8, so, I do for sure miss that. Could have gone with GT350 and still do consider it whenever I see and hear one, but everywhere I look I see one and the interior is outdated.
I got lost when I sat in the boat of a Charger/Challenger and really didn't feel like it's going anywhere.
Demon, Hellcat, Redeye are different story and C8's styling is nice from the front but loses me as I go toward the backend. Such a bummer for C8 with so many production shutdowns..
But I hope all will continue with V8's as we may soon not see any from other OEs...

 

[VA90]

Honestly I don't see the point of those cars (Mopars). They are big, heavy and useless, yeah sure, 800 whp, but what is purpose if they just burn tire the entire way. To me they look like 70s cars tech with fancy plastic on top of them. The interiors are awful, I don't know.

I see the appeal of a Mustang or even a Camaro, both are in the 3700-3800 lb range. But 4600 lbs is plain mediocre, also their engines are still V8 with pushrods.

I know why there are so many, they are cheap, they are cheap used too. Nothing against the owners though, but the cars are stupid. However, I can see why the hellcat is fun although useless.

I'm not gonna be Mopar's public defender lol but there are some very customer-friendly things Dodge does where Toyota should take note. It may be a matter of sales volume, a mature platform, or less of an emphasis on the ultimate bottom line but it is good that the Challenger has multiple (and affordable) wheel options, color/graphics options, interiors, and powertrains. You can also tune the ECU. To me, it's just a different customer: the Hellcat buyer is looking for something big, brash, and fast (in a straight line from 60-150 MPH). Your average Supra buyer isn't about all that. At least I wasn't. I chose my Supra over Camaro ZLE/Hellcat and haven't looked back but GM and Dodge do a good job of trying to give their customers what they want.

 

[Camus]

I'm not gonna be Mopar's public defender lol but there are some very customer-friendly things Dodge does where Toyota should take note. It may be a matter of sales volume, a mature platform, or less of an emphasis on the ultimate bottom line but it is good that the Challenger has multiple (and affordable) wheel options, color/graphics options, interiors, and powertrains. You can also tune the ECU. To me, it's just a different customer: the Hellcat buyer is looking for something big, brash, and fast (in a straight line from 60-150 MPH). Your average Supra buyer isn't about all that. At least I wasn't. I chose my Supra over Camaro ZLE/Hellcat and haven't looked back but GM and Dodge do a good job of trying to give their customers what they want.

That's a good point, Toyota could take note. Would have been awesome to offer manual transmission for the 2022, but at this point I am starting to think it won't happen until the last two years of production, if anything.

And I know, I had a Mustang GT 2018, the sound was something else, the cold start was music every morning, but the handling and the feel... After driving a real sports car like the 911, a Cayman, a Supra, etc, the Mustang felt like a boat, and is not 4600 lb heavy as the Hellcat, I can't imagine how those cars behave in twisty roads.

Also yes, this is completely subjective and each to his own. My first sports car was a 1997 Z3 roadster 2.8 manual, so I am kind of used to small, lightweight RWD cars, and how they respond. Different customers, different budgets and different needs.

 

[max]

Can't hate em for selling a shit ton of units man. They are an attractive package

Co-worker has a WIDEBODY and since i am driving the "imitation crab meat" 2.0 Supra, have not picked on her BUT................. today, on ride home, I took an off-ramp with posted 25mph limit @ 58 on the speedo.......that d@mn WIDEBODY would crush me (to an extent....) going straight but that BIG A$$ would have flipped trying to keep up with the "IMITATION CRAB MEAT" on that curve!!!!!!

Imitation or not........THAT is why I bought the Supra!!!!!

 

[DatBassTho]

Co-worker has a WIDEBODY and since i am driving the "imitation crab meat" 2.0 Supra, have not picked on her BUT................. today, on ride home, I took an off-ramp with posted 25mph limit @ 58 on the speedo.......that d@mn WIDEBODY would crush me (to an extent....) going straight but that BIG A$$ would have flipped trying to keep up with the "IMITATION CRAB MEAT" on that curve!!!!!!

Imitation or not........THAT is why I bought the Supra!!!!!

Right. Stock they can't handle corners but there are more than enough mods out there to make them capable. You just gotta be prepared to go through consumables at 3x the rate haha

 

[Nico]

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I didn't have the time to read through all 53 pages

What are the hurdles with taking a vehicle that has a locked DME and replacing it with an unlocked part from 06/20 and prior?

Thanks in advance for any input.

 

[MisterSkiz]

Honestly I don't see the point of those cars (Mopars). They are big, heavy and useless, yeah sure, 800 whp, but what is purpose if they just burn tire the entire way. To me they look like 70s cars tech with fancy plastic on top of them. The interiors are awful, I don't know.

I see the appeal of a Mustang or even a Camaro, both are in the 3700-3800 lb range. But 4600 lbs is plain mediocre, also their engines are still V8 with pushrods.

I know why there are so many, they are cheap, they are cheap used too. Nothing against the owners though, but the cars are stupid. However, I can see why the hellcat is fun although useless.

That is literally the point of them. Huge V8s that smoke the tires. I love it.

 

[zrk]

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I didn't have the time to read through all 53 pages

What are the hurdles with taking a vehicle that has a locked DME and replacing it with an unlocked part from 06/20 and prior?

Thanks in advance for any input.

I'd actually love to understand the technical hurdles as well. I've been told it cannot be done, but I'm not exactly sure why not.