Nismo Z vs Mustang Dark Horse vs GR Supra

[noogie]

Track times are theoretical. You don’t buy the car based on track time. I guess some do. Arguing one car is better purely because it’s faster on a track is silly.

this is why he says the Z is a better drivers car. Same for the Miata etc.

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[PikkaGTR]

Track times are theoretical. You don’t buy the car based on track time. I guess some do. Arguing one car is better purely because it’s faster on a track is silly.

this is why he says the Z is a better drivers car. Same for the Miata etc.

You've got that reversed mate
Which car is the better drivers cars is subjective, which means it depends on who's doing the driving
Track times are objective and measurable, so it isn't up for debate

 

[RenRed2]

You-Shite-Tube is not about anything but clicks n money. Drive what you like. Reviewers dont even own the things they drive 99% of the time. THEY DO NOT MATTER. Forums in general provide better feedback given ACTUAL owners exist. FK YOUTUBE and most of the idiots thinking they know cars. They dont know YOU>

 

[noogie]

You've got that reversed mate
Which car is the better drivers cars is subjective, which means it depends on who's doing the driving
Track times are objective and measurable, so it isn't up for debate

why do track times even matter when these cars are driven 99% on public roads?

drivers cars are usually defined as a car that's engaging, 1:1 control, and provides feedback to the driver. these are objective characteristics. the Z does this better than the supra and dark horse.

most consumers never have the chance to test hundreds of cars, so their experience of a driver's car is based on a sample of 3-4 cars.

 

[noogie]

You-Shite-Tube is not about anything but clicks n money. Drive what you like. Reviewers dont even own the things they drive 99% of the time. THEY DO NOT MATTER. Forums in general provide better feedback given ACTUAL owners exist. FK YOUTUBE and most of the idiots thinking they know cars. They dont know YOU>

forums are full of biased owners. most people can't accept that they paid 50k for an 'inferior' car.

 

[Sub-MkV]

why do track times even matter when these cars are driven 99% on public roads?

drivers cars are usually defined as a car that's engaging, 1:1 control, and provides feedback to the driver. these are objective characteristics. the Z does this better than the supra and dark horse.

most consumers never have the chance to test hundreds of cars, so their experience of a driver's car is based on a sample of 3-4 cars.

You do know that you can look at the opinions of many reviewers and get different results right? Mark, isn't big on the Supra because he wanted it to be a pure Japanese car like the Nissan Z so he actively overlooks the shortcomings of the Z and bags on the Supra having BMW bones. However many other reviewers will have different opinions from him which makes it all SUBJECTIVE. Some folks who drive both will favor one over the other plus the Nismo Z is a track variant and the Supra doesn't have one yet(maybe the GRMN) so track times in this discussion is the point. Now if we are talking about the regular Z vs the Supra that's a different story as both cars aren't track variants.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

Britt Casey Jr states that his least favorite car is the Supra even though it scores the fastest lap time. His argument is that it requires a higher skill set to operate the car. I understand what he's saying but don't necessarily agree. In the end the lap time is all that counts. We are measuring the cars capability, not the driver.

I think the "least favorite" part was a push from Mark and Jack, they really have it out for this car lmao.

Britt simply said the car can be difficult, but can be rewarding. That's fine by me.

 

[noogie]

You do know that you can look at the opinions of many reviewers and get different results right? Mark, isn't big on the Supra because he wanted it to be a pure Japanese car like the Nissan Z so he actively overlooks the shortcomings of the Z and bags on the Supra having BMW bones. However many other reviewers will have different opinions from him which makes it all SUBJECTIVE. Some folks who drive both will favor one over the other plus the Nismo Z is a track variant and the Supra doesn't have one yet(maybe the GRMN) so track times in this discussion is the point. Now if we are talking about the regular Z vs the Supra that's a different story as both cars aren't track variants.

the supra, like many modern affordable sports cars, suffer from being too disconnected. this is just the nature of a modern platform.

the Z is much older, therefore, provides more driver engagement. this is why he prefers it. this is why the ND2 miata is arguably one of the last pure sports cars.

some people may prefer the disconnected feel. this has nothing to do with track times, track trims, bmw vs japanese, etc.

people are sensitive when their cars are criticized. it's natural. i get it.

 

[Sub-MkV]

the supra, like many modern affordable sports cars, suffer from being too disconnected. this is just the nature of a modern platform.

the Z is much older, therefore, provides more driver engagement. this is why he prefers it. this is why the ND2 miata is arguably one of the last pure sports cars.

some people may prefer the disconnected feel. this has nothing to do with track times, track trims, bmw vs japanese, etc.

people are sensitive when their cars are criticized. it's natural. i get it.

You still don't get it. It's his OPINION and that doesn't make it fact. The ND2 Miata(and even the Z) is a victim of the new age era EPS steering/soft gt suspension and many reviewers have called it disconnected feeling especially compared to the NA/NB cars and the 300ZX. The Nismo Z has stiffer bushings, stiffer suspension and other tweaks to make it more engaging but this was never said about the regular performance model, Nissan Z. You have to realize that manufacturers want to sell cars to more than just track rats/hardcore enthusiasts therefore the Supra(and the performance model Z) is set up like a sports/GT on purpose that leaves a lot on the table feel wise. A stiffer setup Supra will naturally have more feeling from the chassis.

If you keep an eye out for more reviews you'll see what I'm saying. There will be many who find a manual Supra more engaging than a Nismo Z with an inferior automatic and 3700lbs of weight in the same size car. Also the 350/370Z platforms were never known for being great feel cars. I owned a G35 coupe from the 350Z era and that platform was never impressive yet many called it a nicer Z. It lacked feel everywhere despite not having EPS steering. Just because a platform is old doesn't make it great in feel. The Rx8 was the feel king during the 350z years.

 

[concept]

Side note: Car & Driver found that the Supra 3.0's sound level (inside) is 68 db at 70 MPH. The Z Nismo's sound level is at a whopping 76 db.

Certainly, that's not an issue on a track when you're wearing a helmet, but on the street when you're listening to tunes, that's a big difference.

 

[Mimosa]

Any time I hear "driver's car" my mind processes it as "slow and/or shitty."

 

[alan7467]

the supra, like many modern affordable sports cars, suffer from being too disconnected. this is just the nature of a modern platform.

the Z is much older, therefore, provides more driver engagement. this is why he prefers it. this is why the ND2 miata is arguably one of the last pure sports cars.

some people may prefer the disconnected feel. this has nothing to do with track times, track trims, bmw vs japanese, etc.

people are sensitive when their cars are criticized. it's natural. i get it.

The first time I test drove the Supra (a used 2021) I still owned my ND2 Miata. You’re spot on with your assessment. The Miata is raw and engaging pretty much all the time. The Supra is fairly disconnected by comparison. Though now that I own one I’ve discovered that it at least gets pretty engaging when pushed on a good canyon road. IMO it falls somewhere between a MK7.5 Golf R and Miata in fun factor in that scenario. So pretty good.

The rest of the time? Yeah, it’s a bit disconnected. However, for me that’s a positive. It makes it a better daily driver for my use case. One that I can still have a lot of fun with on the right road.

 

[Rocksandblues]

Track times matter

 

[BMWAF]

forums are full of biased owners. most people can't accept that they paid 50k for an 'inferior' car.

True but what @RenRed2 said is true also. That's why critical thinking is so important. Read everything, analyse, mix in your own experience and then make up your own damned mind.

And while we're here.. fuck all the Miata and 86 love: Most over-rated cars in existence.

 

[BraveDemon]

Track times matter

Of course they matter - particularly for sports cars.

Only butthurt apologists say things like track times don’t matter.

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