Supra Manual : "A future classic " ????

[MoTeC_R]

If shopping for a more recent Porsche, BMW or similar modern car, those are far removed from the “automatic“ of old.

But that’s what I would do ofc. Gimme a modern F1 style paddle shifting Ferrari, Porsche or manual you name it badass ride that was well maintained for a good price ?. Different strokes for different folks.

Exactly! That’s my point, the manual was popular because it was faster than automatic transmissions, more dependable and engaging, not anymore technology has won and times have changed and the crowd that will be the say 5-10 year owners didn’t grow up with manuals everywhere nor drive them all their lives like many of us. It’s going to be a completely different situation from those buyers life experience from their upbringing.

Time will bring more change. Just don’t think only one transmission option will be a classic when the car is already a classic to many of us.

It doesn’t matter to me what my car is worth until I’m too old to drive it anymore as it will be with me no matter what new platform I experience in the coming years.

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[s219]

There was a time when automatics sucked and people would prefer manuals for performance, but performance is not the only factor. I think it's always been true that many drivers prefer a manual for the engagement. I have yet to find any automatic or DCT that can recreate that magical part of the experience. The C8 has a great DCT but that car is dead to me since it doesn't offer a manual. May as well play a video game.

A collector is normally going to look for the rarer and more limited versions of a car, and they want one in original condition or as close as possible. I think both the automatic and manual Supras have future collector potential if they are not modded, but the rare/limited factor may depend on what happens in the next generation or even if there is a next generation. There are many enthusiasts and collectors on a "deathwatch" for manual sports cars, and the last generation of them is going to be a hot ticket going forward. Everybody knows the future is trending towards hybrids and electrification, which doesn't bode well for the MT.

I rewatched Doug's "classics" video and the other videos he did on the Supra over the years. It's clear he thought the car needed an MT from the very beginning and was happy when it showed up. In Doug's mind the automatic Supra just wasn't fully baked and thus has limited appeal into the future. Just like he mentioned for the M2/M3/M4 at the beginning of the classics video, he is of the opinion that we're on the cusp of losing great manual transmission sport cars. Put it all together, and naturally he'd name the MT Supra as a future classic . In my mind, the MT Supra and M2/M3/M4 are all in the same boat. Appreciate them while you can.

 

[Loco38SUP]

You guys are disputing the obvious technical reason why the Auto should be the better option. But the reality is that all the Clapper Bois have made the manual legendary by spamming their Temu shifters.

-RJM

 

[BMWAF]

Just don’t think only one transmission option will be a classic when the car is already a classic to many of us.

? Every car owner thinks their car is "already a classic." This is confirmation bias. Just ask any Z owner. In light of their opinions, most people can't seem to see facts if they hit them on the nose.

If you step outside your own thinking (and I mean everyone here) for a moment, you will see that our beloved car actually has a lot going against it! While it's not an issue for us current owners, don't' underestimate the whole German vs Japanese heritage issue. This will dog the car until the end of time and in "future classic" terms, it's very bad news.

Fast forward 50 years. What will be the Supra MKVs claim to fame? A movie? Massive power potential? It's availability in the long gone manual transmission? Or will it be its controversial mixed heritage?

I'd place my bets on what makes it stand out from the crowd most: The last one.. and if I'm being overly optimistic, the last two.

we're on the cusp of losing great manual transmission sport cars. Put it all together, and naturally he'd name the MT Supra as a future classic

And if an ICE MKVI comes out (or a Ceilca/MR2) with comparable performance and a manual transmission, all bets are off. ?

 

[MoTeC_R]

All great points but you all must not forget. “Is that a Supra!?” The name plate alone is iconic.

 

[BimmerGuy]

It's probably blasphemy here to agree with Phil, but he has a good point. Most of the world still drives cars with manual transmissions. The USA, Australia and Canada are the exception.

I'm still gobsmacked that Australia requires a driving test for a manual transmission. That's just awesome.

Anyway... I bought the car to drive and enjoy. It's not going to fund my retirement.

 

[FuzzyRev]

Curious to see what this one brings. Are you on here dude?

https://carsandbids.com/auctions/30x7v5VV/2023-toyota-gr-supra-a91-mt-edition

 

[lucky phil]

It's probably blasphemy here to agree with Phil, but he has a good point. Most of the world still drives cars with manual transmissions. The USA, Australia and Canada are the exception.

I'm still gobsmacked that Australia requires a driving test for a manual transmission. That's just awesome.

Anyway... I bought the car to drive and enjoy. It's not going to fund my retirement.

Yea you won't do yourself any favours here by agreeing with me, lol.
On your last point I "get it" but its nice to know that your current cars value is going to hold up for a while if for no other reason than it helps fund your next "must have".
Cases in point. My CV-Z Monaro, owned for 11 years and sold for a profit over what I paid for it new(Turismo Blue and six speed manual) People wanted it for the manual and the colour and the condition of course. My 6 year old Focus RS Mk3, sold for the exact same money I paid new for it.
Phil

 

[gixxersixxerman]

I "get it" but its nice to know that your current cars value is going to hold up for a while if for no other reason than it helps fund your next "must have".

Exactly how I feel. I have never bought a car hoping for it to appreciate in value. But I also don't want a car like my Focus St or Mustang GT that 6 months later were worth less than half the MSRP. A 2018 GT that MSRP for 51k was "worth" 24k in early 2020. Now I did sell it in 2021 for 41k, 2-3 more than I bought it due to the covid market for used cars, my ST that I sold for 16k is still going for 16k because of this market, but that was a 32k car 2.5 years before I sold it. I get that's what can happen, but I do enjoy having a car that retains its value. I still get 50-55k offers on my Supra and I paid 56k for it. So yeah, much nicer feeling.

 

[BMWAF]

I'm still gobsmacked that Australia requires a driving test for a manual transmission. That's just awesome.

Yes but stupidly, you only need to take a manual transmission test to drive a manual while on probation. Once you have your full license, you can drive whatever you want, irrespective of what probationary license you had. ?‍

 

[BimmerGuy]

Yes but stupidly, you only need to take a manual transmission test to drive a manual while on probation. Once you have your full license, you can drive whatever you want, irrespective of what probationary license you had. ?‍

Well, if you're going to talk stupid, what about driving on the wrong side of the road?

LOL, j/k

 

[razorlab]

It's probably blasphemy here to agree with Phil, but he has a good point. Most of the world still drives cars with manual transmissions. The USA, Australia and Canada are the exception.

Def NOT the USA as you mentioned. Over 95% of cars here are automatic. Europe also has more autos than manuals now. Over 70% are automatics. I believe South Africa has the highest manual transmission usage at around 40%

So no, most of the world do not drive cars with manuals. Most drive automatics. It's changed A LOT in the last decade.

 

[NicKnack]

? Every car owner thinks their car is "already a classic." This is confirmation bias. Just ask any Z owner. In light of their opinions, most people can't seem to see facts if they hit them on the nose.

If you step outside your own thinking (and I mean everyone here) for a moment, you will see that our beloved car actually has a lot going against it! While it's not an issue for us current owners, don't' underestimate the whole German vs Japanese heritage issue. This will dog the car until the end of time and in "future classic" terms, it's very bad news.

Fast forward 50 years. What will be the Supra MKVs claim to fame? A movie? Massive power potential? It's availability in the long gone manual transmission? Or will it be its controversial mixed heritage?

I'd place my bets on what makes it stand out from the crowd most: The last one.. and if I'm being overly optimistic, the last two.



And if an ICE MKVI comes out (or a Ceilca/MR2) with comparable performance and a manual transmission, all bets are off. ?

I think one of the big differences moving forward vs. when the MKIV gained a lot of it's popularity is that ICE cars, especially lighter weight (~3300lbs is honestly pretty light these days)/drivers focused cars are slowly going the way of the dodo.

I'm sure there will be generations of EV Enthusiasts but eventually for people who want ICE Drivers cars, you're only going to be able to look back and that changes the dynamic a bit because you're now having to pick out of a finite pool of produced cars that realistically will only get smaller as time goes on.

There won't necessarily be cross shopping used/classics with their modern equivalents because it will all be PHEV/BEV, and manual options at some point will cease to exist in anything other than niche hyper cars like the GMA cars, or Pagani Utopia.

So while the MKV doesn't necessarily have the same "japanese heritage" as the MKIV, it still does have plenty going for it in that it's a great car dynamically, is fast out of the box but is near infinitely tuneable much like the MKIV, and while this may be subjective; it is a great looking car as well. I think heritage will come to matter far less when people's options for a car like this are so limited.

Regardless, buying a car to stuff it away and think about future dollar values is stupid and not the point, but I also don't think the MKV will really land in a bad spot value wise some day long in the future

 

[lucky phil]

Def NOT the USA as you mentioned. Over 95% of cars here are automatic. Europe also has more autos than manuals now. Over 70% are automatics. I believe South Africa has the highest manual transmission usage at around 40%

So no, most of the world do not drive cars with manuals. Most drive automatics. It's changed A LOT in the last decade.

Well I guess if you are going to leave out China which is around 50/50 and India which is around 80/20 in manuals favour and all of South east Asia all three regions which represent around 45% of the worlds population then I guess you're probably right.
Phil

 

[lucky phil]

Yes but stupidly, you only need to take a manual transmission test to drive a manual while on probation. Once you have your full license, you can drive whatever you want, irrespective of what probationary license you had. ?‍

This is true. My daughter was 5 weeks off being able to drive the manual legally anyway. Personally I would have just waited but I'm not a 22YO. It wasn't just a "well you've been driving almost 3 years so we'll just do a short test and check your gearbox and clutch skills and call it done". Oh no the full 9 yards of a driving test that took 35 minutes. Passed anyway, but.
Phil

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